Listen now | Dear E. Jean: I have read enough of your columns now to know that good men are out there and they often come when you are not necessarily looking or searching. However, dating has always been difficult for me. I am 30, and I realize that I do not believe I will ever find love; and what's worse, I don't think I deserve it.
CONFLABBIANS!! You're gonna love Ms.Not Like Other Girls even more when you read her response to your wonderful advice:
Dear E. Jean,
First of all, thank you for making me blush AND laugh! Its been a while since I genuinely laughed about something that mostly makes me feel rotten inside, so hats off to you! I never considered myself an Ava Gardner, but its true I used to dress like a secretary from a 1950s B-movie, and that seems close enough.
Ive been thinking about my letter to you ever since I sent it. I think the Conflab correctly identified that I need to think more strategically about how many men I am meeting and where. I realized this... I don't see men as potential friends when I meet them, but always as potential life partners first. That puts way too much pressure on me and often sets me up for disappointment. And it's practically objectifying on some level, right? (Kind of like when men see me only as a sexual object, for example.)
And so I think I am due some re-strategizing... and stop seeing men either as princes on horses or total assholes only, but you know, maybe as human beings, with all faults and upbringing of patriarchy. You and several commenters correctly identified that perhaps the first issue to work on, however, is the irrational belief that I do not deserve love and am not worthy of it. When I was writing my letter to you, and realized it, it broke my heart. I don't want to spend my life alone but now I understand that if that happens for whatever reason, at least the relationship I have with myself should be healthy and fulfilling. I don't know where to start with accepting my weirdness and knowing that I am worthy of love after three decades of not doing that. But I have friends, therapy and myself to help me on my way, I suppose.
Many thanks to the Conflab too, I am honestly humbled by the time and effort the community put into answers and sharing their stories. I have a lot to reflect on in the coming weeks and so many suggestions to refer back to. Please give them my thanks if you can.
Lastly, I loved your voice delivery, and I hope this is a permanent feature now!
E. Jean said it, and I'll say it too: all the finest people are weird.
This isn't a cop-out or an excuse or a dodge. It's the absolute truth. Nobody who is interesting isn't at least somewhat weird. Maybe even a LOT weird.
Whatever it is about you that you're privately fretting about as your 'weirdness'? These are exactly the things that make you intriguing, outstanding, remarkable, and unpredictable. (Dressing like a secretary from a 1950s B-movie? Weird. And amazingly individualistic, memorable, intriguing and fun!)
Keep in mind that people who recognize their own eccentricities and quirks as their strength and their source of power (E. Jean is one such person) have the BEST time. And people who have the best time attract other people to them ... because who doesn't want to be around someone who enjoys life?
Which is to say that of *course* you deserve love, Ms. Yes. And you also deserve to think of yourself as weird in a POSITIVE way -- in a way that sets you apart from the poor benighted souls who are dull and conformist and uncurious and unquestioning, and who may live their whole lives never getting to be weird at all. Pity them, Ms. Yes ... and then embrace your OWN weirdness!
You are correct, E. Jean, I love her even more. What a great follow-on letter.
And curiously, it seems that accepting your own weirdness is, de facto, allowing the space for the person you've shaped yourself into being, in an "I am the queen of me" sense. The fact that Ms. YES has gone further abroad into what ... she? or another? ... considers to be weirdness seems that she has, to date, valued her own creativity and unique expression beyond others' prescriptions of how to be. She's her own damn art project: how would her honoring of herself in this way NOT be wildly attractive?
Ms Yes, this isn’t advice, but just a lil something I thought I’d throw out there. I was in my late 20s before I had a “real” boyfriend. I had had crushes and ‘situations’ and hookups and went on dates, but I got a real late start on a relationship with someone who would call me his girlfriend.
But ya know what? I still had relationships. I still met someone and got married and the whole shabang. Getting off the ground a little later than some other folks doesn’t mean you can’t still get where you wanna go.
Dear Not Like Other Girls: Actually, you ARE like the select few of other girls; you are smart, gorgeous and analytical. You know what you want and who you are in a world where most people don't. Your narrative is not the first I've seen that expresses such dismay and probably won't be the last. Right now, in my girl posse, I have about 15 gorgeous women who are in their mid-30s to mid-40s who have never been married and are wondering the same things you are. My BFF is in her 50s and has never been married. She looks like a more refined version of Halle Berry. My other BFF, is sexy AF. She has the most stunning skin, is willowy, tall, breath-stopping gorgeous and has a sense of style that is dynamite. Actually, she can't keep men away from her. But she says they suck as do the others. They can't have a decent conversation, they dress terribly, their hygiene is questionable and it's obvious they only want one thing from her but could never even do that very well. My girl posse says that men don't woo women anymore. And many of them know zilch about sex but what they've seen in porn. There are too many things, on social media, that men think they should have from women, without bringing anything to the table, e.g. submission from a woman but the man has nothing. The stories I've heard have made me believe that if my husband predeceases me, I will never get married again nor will I probably date. My mom was widowed youngish, at 65. She has had a lot of men, in her age group, try it. But she says the same. They suck. She is well off so men are looking for a "nurse and a purse". She's now 85 and says it's not generational because the old codgers who try to get with her suck too. Most of the women, in my girl posse, haven't been "with" a man, sexually, in years. They say it's just not worth it and all of them are modern enough to have toys to take care of things.
These women are bosses. They are very successful entrepreneurs, hellcats in pretty decent metal bands, high level managers... they all make an eff-ton of money and live quite well, travel and have the most beautiful sanctuaries (their homes). But they all say the same thing. The men just aren't worthy and seem like they really don't want to be. So they live their best lives possible and have planned to have a high-class "Golden Girls" situation when they reach a certain age. I don't blame them.
Basically, I don't know what to tell you. I think we may have reached the Dark Ages of relationships. Remember how we were taught, in Biology, that women always sought out the best of the gene pool to hook up with/get married to so their progeny would be the best, genetically? And men supposedly "competed" to be that choice? Mm, hm. Look at where we are now. Do we really have that dynamic? Did we ever? I can only say that you must live your best life, without men, and live it well. Truth to tell, I was just like you, when I turned 30. I told my mom that my Mr. Right was probably some Soviet dude who was wondering if his Ms. Right was an American girl and never the two should meet. I didn't get married until I was 35. He showed up when I least expected it. Cliché, I know, but this is why these aphorisms ARE cliché, because they are often true. And really, if we had the answers to this question, we'd he rich AF. I can't tell you to "do something" like change your lipstick or wear pink or drench yourself in some pheromone-inducing perfume. If that shit worked, there would be no Dr. Phil, no self-help books, no E-Harmony... it would all just work and everyone would be booed up with their gender of choice. Whatever you're looking for, I hope you find it. But remember this... only you can make you happy. Don't depend on someone else to do it. Blessings!
Hear it? That sound coming from Mt. Olympus? It is the gods applauding. Me too. I loved every word, every syllable, every letter of every syllable; but when you wrote:
"Remember how we were taught, in Biology, that women always sought out the best of the gene pool to hook up with/get married to so their progeny would be the best, genetically? And men supposedly "competed" to be that choice? Mm, hm. Look at where we are now. Do we really have that dynamic? Did we ever?"
What a breath of fresh air, of pulling the curtains aside, Patrice. Combined with the previous observation of what type of men the Patriarchy produces, the lop-sided numbers begin to make sense. The one thing I have to add to the conversation is that, in the older population, the men that haven't lived in such a way as to piss off their wives, that is those that are still married or long-term partnered, may fit the interest requirements, and get a second look; but they aren't available.
It's so true, though. And what's really amazing is how the entitlement has leached into the older generations where men were trained to be gentlemen. My mom was looking to hire a master cabinet maker when she was building her house. She was told, by her general contractor, that this old guy was the best in the city so she interviewed him. He asked her to ride with him to go see some of his work, both commercial and residential. As they were riding, he said, "Are you single? A fine woman like you? We need to shack up, share our checks and take care of each other. You are building that fine, big house and plan to live in it alone?" My mom was stunned. She replied, "Yes, I plan to live alone. Not interested in a relationship, no matter what. Not interested in in sharing my money or my space." Then he was stunned and probably a little miffed. "Well, I'm a catch in the octogenarian circles. Women love me and will do anything for me. In fact, I had a young thing, about 60, who would bring me sandwiches when I demanded it. She make it and bring it to my house. What makes you so special?" My mom said they were sitting at a red light. She jumped out of his truck, called her contractor and told him to come and get her. The cabinet maker begged her to rethink it but she said no way in Hell would she hire a guy who had no professionalism and was using his job to score women. This guy was 86!!! I wish this story was an exaggeration but her general contractor confirmed it and apologized profusely for the grizzled masher's behavior. The entitlement is fierce.
Before I left Montana in 2009, I was building a house. That is, I was hiring a string of all male contractors to build my house. What a ride. One memorable conversation was when the person that I was employing felt that he had to stop, arms akimbo, and explain to me that he didn't support any of that female empowerment crap. I can't remember his terms, feminism or whatever; but I remember his purpose. I should stop trying to have him do the work as agreed-upon, and just be happy that he'd deigned to work on the job at all, being as how he'd lowered himself to work for a sub-class of person. It was constant. I figure I paid for that house three times over in literal dollars. Another contractor mansplained to me that not all contractors were out to cheat me, and that I should be more trusting. This was in response to insisting that the job specs be spelled out in a written contract. I eventually came to the conclusion, post-marriage, that "I love you," when stated by a traditionally raised woman meant, "I am overjoyed to be sharing my life with you, you make the world a better place, and I'd give my limited heartbeats to save or help you." However, when stated by a traditionally raised man in this Patriarchal society, the same words meant to him, "If I say this to you, it will lock you in the chains of providing to me everything that you are able to produce or do. I will repeat the phrase as necessary to keep you producing." I am perfectly willing to hear how jaded I am; but this is my observed truth. As evidence of the scarcity of men who are actually at ease with Equity, as opposed to those who say that they are, count the number of men contributors to this newsletter. Then filter those few by those that contribute worthwhile insight. The dearth of numbers becomes painfully obvious.
Sorry if you can’t hear me responding over the global applause I’ve incited in recognition of your comment, Elena Rose. Yeehaw!, you’ve nailed it. (Sorry for the construction pun.)
I know, right? All women everywhere who have had to deal with trades that have successfully excluded women from their ranks feel this one. When the still-extant woodshop classes in my son's secondary school were forced to admit girls, the students no longer brought home woodshop projects of laminated cutting boards or kitchen stools. Instead, they showed up with miniature bridges made from popsicle sticks. Very much the same thing as filling in the public swimming pools in lieu of integration. Guess they showed us. --- https://oregontradeswomen.org/ . --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Manuel
Thankfully, my mom got her house built and it is stunningly gorgeous! She hired another cabinet maker who did a fabulous job on all her cabinets from the kitchen to the bathrooms. This is her dream house and certainly fulfilled everything she wanted despite the idiocy of the coot. My mom is super strong willed so she can get anything done, no matter what obstacles are in her path.
The topic change is worth talking about. If Not Like Other Girls is intimidating (which is a loaded word and has all kinds of connotations), what's wrong with that? I have been pegged intimidating myself but it should be expected after having served 22 years in the US Navy, the last few as a commanding senior officer who was rarely questioned. I never had a God complex (like some did) but I was intolerant of nonsense, game-playing and idiocy. Basically, my home training and the Navy made me. And yes, men were intimidated (they told me so; one tried to tell me I needed to be "tamed") but I was looking for a man on my level and thank goodness my husband came along. He revels in my so-called intimidation because he was a Naval officer himself and got to know me. In fact, he says he learned a lot from me. If you don't cross me, you won't feel the brunt of it. And it gets any job done. I should note that a lot of White people think Black women are intimidating if we're just standing, waiting for the bus and minding our own business; not my job to put them at ease. If they don't make an effort to get to know me like I do for them, not much I can do. Also, I think too much responsibility has been put upon women, in general, to "adjust" ourselves so men will feel better about themselves when they speak with us. Yeah, no. That has been tantamount to asking women to hide their real selves. Doesn't bode well, when, years later, she can't expend the energy anymore to be that someone else. Ciara has a song, "Level Up" (great song to dance to!). I'm thinking that a lot of (not all) men need to do this. They need to bring themselves up to our level. The barn door is open. Women will never be Donna Reed or June Cleaver again.
In my younger days, my intimidated bosses would try to start affairs with me. If they could possess me, they could control me, and that was almost as good as not being upset that their promised superiority, and my inferiority, had not been delivered. I remember, vividly, the look on one man's face when I stopped our enjoyable lunch conversation at an away-job with, "Take your hand off my shoulder." He adjusted; we continued to have a good working relationship. We need to finish ripping those fecking (thank you Irish ladies) barn doors off the hinges.
I'm with you on ripping off the barn doors. And as I said, "taming". That made me laugh because they actually thought they had the golden gonads to whip me into submission. Dream on.
Hmmm...I was struck by the line "I have an active social life and have worked in a bunch of environments in my twenties and yet, I never see men around me I find attractive (not even physically)."
Okay. So where ARE you seeing men you find attractive?
If the answer is "bah, nowhere, there are no such creatures", then the question becomes "are there *women* you find attractive? And where are you seeing them?" And we go from there.
If the answer is "I'm seeing men I'm attracted to in places where I'm not active socially, or in work environments other than mine", then we can look at ways to GET you to those places by changing your social patterns. E. Jean has suggested a number of sporting events, but if sporting events aren't your scene -- and if you're really not interested in guys who base their lives around sports -- there are also libraries, writing groups, book clubs, LARP events, art classes, philosophy lectures, museum events, sailing lessons, charity fundraisers, comic cons, engine repair lessons .... the list goes on.
If the answer is "only in the movies", then you need to talk to your therapist about the unrealistic expectations a two-hour movie can set up in terms of lifelong romantic scenarios.
Oh, and Tinder is really NOT the way to meet up with the person you're looking for. There are far more effective on-line services...E. Jean has mentioned some of them!
ALSO -- weird is good. I know nobody in a successful relationship who DOESN'T think their partner is a little weird...in a good way. I mean, *nobody* says, "I was attracted to her utter lack of personality quirks", or "I chose the love of my life because they are crushingly average, and they possess no distinctive individuality at all."
Embrace your weirdness ... it's what makes you attractive!
What’s so exciting about the idea of lessons / learning is how it casts a wider net than just the instructor(s) involved: interests are a magnet for those who share them. Like when makers gather maker communities, people make community around their interests. I know a woman who went to a science meetup for both these reasons, the shared interest and the wider net, and married a sweetheart of a guy, a futurist and author who adores her.
That “bah, nowhere, there are no such creatures” was such perfect, succinct summation of Ms. Not’s seeming train of thought, but also the not believing she’ll ever find love and thinking she doesn’t deserve it? Absolutely central to the holdup. These beliefs are … unhelpful, dear Ms. Not. Please consider naming these works-spanners for the self-sabotage they are and banish them from your repertoire of thought (i.e., replace each with its opposite). You actively create in reality what you’ve entertained most often in the privacy of your mind. When you meet someone consistently revealing a shimmering core of being that lights you up, the who of who they are is the aphrodisiac, which will be visible only if you actively subscribe to the possibility of connection and are willing to be vulnerable to get it and will allow for at least five minutes of talk to see if it might be here, in this corner of humanity. If you are someone who thinks finding such persons is possible. Otherwise, you miss it, like when you look for your glasses which are on your head.
This got me started thinking what I’d do in that direction (thank you for bringing our attention to this underappreciated goldmine, Kal — great list, great POST, btw). I’m beyond curious what others here would get up to. I’ve been thinking about glass and wood- and fine metalworking and upholstery lessons (and bench time for all), but also the interests best done in a group, i.e., kayaking and hiking and maybe mushroom hunting or naturalist series with emphases on foraging or birdwatching or trail maintenance (had a family member do this till he was 92) or plein air watercolor or Lindy and West Coast Swing. Any one of hundreds of areas of technique in the realm of cooking, which I’ve only recently come to love when I finally acquired the ability to improvise reliably. Speaking of improv, maybe comedy: I love to laugh, and love finding people who are attracted to improvisational conversation (by nature, ENGAGED conversation) which turns to banter, which, with encouragement, turns to flirting. Maybe make swimming part of my life, get up the nerve to dive. Learning the languages specific to all these interests, and Italian, French, and Spanish to boot. Join (or start) a casual jazz or blues jam, start playing with others more, develop my improvisational skills. I like the museum events idea a lot. And the thought of upping my forays to book readings and live music and art openings and lecture series.
The leanings of the way I want to live my life with another (or with others) make for an attraction toward the curious, fully engaged in the experience of living in their physical existence and in this world and in their bodies, not watchers but doers. (Why videogaming and sports-watching seem like nonstarters.) — I expect engaging in some of these interest arenas is still possible via teleconferencing. I expect people are working out protocols offline for in-person nurturing of what have begun to be good online friendships.
You all? Where do you look for connection (either primary partner or friendship), and where would you if you were trying a new venue? In what direction would your curiosity take you? There is no group of oracles whose answers to this question would intrigue me more.
Thank you, dear E. Jean! Doable, right? and then the knowledge and community as a bonus. -- I personally hope Ms. Not gets with the trowel and digs up those weeds first, or no matter where she is, he (/she) could be right in front of her and she'll never even see them. It's a "but not for me" head that she's cultivated and it's like a scrim, with her belief determining its opaqueness/transparency, but first, she has to find the polar opposite (of "I'll never find love" and "I don't deserve love") and slot the new ones in their place.
You've already hit on a great one with improv classes. Improv classes aren't really about learning to be funny ... they're about learning to work with others on stage to explore a situation and find the truth in it. (If you're doing it right, the funniness will soon flow from there.) Which means that because improv is about making connections, if you stick with it and stay true to the spirit of what improv is really about, it can rapidly expand your social circle -- possibly leading to romance, but more than probably at least leading to some long-term friendships.
You spotted my favorite. I did take classes once in L.A. and they were all that and more. Especially the debrief afterward at Canter's, with teacher and most of the class. Just crazy fun. Improv in any form, this way, or with music, or within any art, lights me up more than I have words for.
Yup, I've taken improv at Second City. I had no illusions I would become a performer...I just did it for some creative fun. In fact, I'd recommend improv classes to anyone who's interested in writing, or communicating, or just hanging out with bright, quick-witted people.
Weird is Good! Exactly. My own extremely proper, Mr. All America, and I have a nightly routine... where we both imitate various animals, and chase each other around the apartment in full Animal Kingdom LARP mode for a good ten minutes or so. We are middle-aged conventional people! Neither of us have ever had a relationship where our weirdness is celebrated by our partner. WEIRD IS GOOD.
Whenever I hear a woman say she doesn't want to be like other girls, it breaks my little old hippie-chick feminist heart. What do you think is so wrong with other girls that you have to distance yourself from them? And what other girls? Are you thinking that all other girls are like the Kardashians? Or like the Real Housewives? Or sitcom girls -- who are, btw, mostly written by men? What caused this dislike of other girls?
Because here's the thing. If you have no female friends, you aren't ready for men.
Friendship with other women -- good, solid, healthy friendships -- will grow your butt up better than any other relationships you will ever have. True friendship with other women requires Olympic-caliber honesty, self-awareness, kindness, empathy, humor, generosity and strong boundaries.
All of which come in damn handy when dealing with any romantic/sexual relationship.
I mean this with all of the kindness, etc. I have, but I think the reason you cannot find a man to be attracted to is that you have no idea of who you are. Because no one who knows herself fearlessly and honestly right down to her mitichlorians feels that she does not deserve love.
The fact that you are in therapy is good, but my advice is to forget about men for a little while and get you some girlfriends, too. They will help you figure out who you are, and once you know that, you'll have a better idea of what your deal-breakers are in a relationship. Without knowing those, you're more likely to end up in a ho-hum, settled-too-soon relationship than a happily ever after partnership.
I have been married twice, but I did not meet the love of my life until I had been completely and happily alone for eight years, when I was 52. He is 10 years younger than me. I was refusing to even consider giving him a chance, but my girlfriends straightened me all the way out and here we are more than 10 years later. He is more than worth all of the hard work I had to do to figure out who I am, what I can bring to a relationship and what I require in return.
Once you do that work, I guarantee that you will start attracting -- and maybe, hopefully, being attracted to -- a man who is worthy of the woman you are on your way to being.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you so much luck, fun and adventure. And love. <3
This essay is so true, so acute, so tender, so wise, so RIGHT, so plush with marvelous ideas---I think you could use it as a treatment---- the basis for sit-com.
That is, if you are not already working on a couple of tv projects at the moment.
I have to agree. My girl posse rocks. In fact, several of my women friends have been with me for decades. My bestie has been with me since I was in the womb (she's a year older than me and our parents were best friends), so 62 years. Another one is at 48 years and still another at 35. We've all been friends longer than I've been married (27 years). There's no way I'd be me without them. We've been with each other through thick and thin. Can't live without my homegirls.
I am so sorry to hear this. I have also been hurt badly by other women, but I can honestly say that in at least a few cases the fault was mine for not seeing them clearly. I am not saying that's the case with you. Just sending warm, strong hugs.
I'm going to go out on a "call me a misandrist" limb, but maybe NLOG, you're just too smart for this shit? I mean, I had a single "long" term relationship after college, which lasted all of 13 months. Then at 27, I met my future husband. By 30 I was married, and by 40 I was headed for a long-overdue divorce with two young kids in tow. I dated a bit here and there after my divorce, took a lover for a bit (really just for sex. We were never dating.). Then I ended up in a nearly four-year relationship with a guy who moved into my house with his two kids while it turns out, he was pursuing other women online the entire time. He left me in the spring for his "soulmate" [feel free to insert vomit sounds here].
There ARE good men out there. My lover was a good one, and still is, but not the right one for me. It's possible I recently met a good one that is right for me, but the jury's still out on that one. I'm nearly 50. That's right, two possibly good ones in thirty years of being out there.
Not to be a downer, but patriarchy makes most men self-absorbed at best, dangerous and narcissistic at worst. Also, emotionally stunted and defensive about it. Maybe you're not finding men you're attracted to because there is some part of you that senses the relative futility of finding a man who is worthy of your obvious intelligence and delightful weirdness, who won't just be focused on your reportedly enviable good looks.
Maybe you're ultimately a sapiosexual, meaning you're highly attracted to people's minds and intelligence. If you've bought the culture's idea that you and all your potential mates should be seeking each other out based on looks, then no wonder you're not "attracted to them". You aren't looking for the right thing. *You're* looking for someone as complex and interesting as yourself, and that is a tall order if you're shopping for a cis-man. Not impossible, but I can tell you for sure that I hadn't met a single man by 30, including the man I married, who was as interesting, emotionally intelligent, and smart as I am. Clearly, neither have you.
I don't think your quest to find a partner, if that is truly what you want, is doomed. I just think that for a woman who actually wants a man to match her for looks, smarts, and delicious weirdness the quest may be a long one, and that's okay. I wouldn't trade my kids. They're great. But I wish I hadn't had to go through so many shitty men to end up at nearly 50, happily living in my own house with them and nobody the hell else.
Give yourself a break. Maybe think about pursuing older men, who've been around long enough to get some humility and wisdom under their belts? Maybe stop looking in bars and at events, which tend to be shallow and superficial spaces, and seek out a spiritual community so you might meet men who care about deeper things than just your looks? Maybe sign up for some classes on subjects that are really interesting to *you* and see who else is similarly interested? Maybe start looking for men who are interesting to you as people, and the physical attraction might sneak in the door when you're not looking?
I think you're doing great (though I am sorry about the abuse and assault, because that's heinous). And I don't think you're taking too long. I suspect you just haven't taken quite long enough to think about what piques your interest and really turns your crank. You're just following the usual script for women and you're, as you say, not like other girls. You want more and better than most of us settle for, as well you should.
Asha! What a rambunctious and marvelous adventure you are living!
You might have called it with with the Sapiosexual possibility.
"Maybe you're ultimately a sapiosexual, meaning you're highly attracted to people's minds and intelligence. If you've bought the culture's idea that you and all your potential mates should be seeking each other out based on looks, then no wonder you're not "attracted to them". You aren't looking for the right thing. *You're* looking for someone as complex and interesting as yourself, and that is a tall order if you're shopping for a cis-man. Not impossible, but I can tell you for sure that I hadn't met a single man by 30, including the man I married, who was as interesting, emotionally intelligent, and smart as I am. Clearly, neither have you."
This is so true in my experience, “Not to be a downer, but patriarchy makes most men self-absorbed at best, dangerous and narcissistic at worst. Also, emotionally stunted and defensive about it.”
I know Patrice and Jena and Asha are not dreaming; I’ve heard this from women, that finding good men is difficult, but all my friends who are married are married to gems, and I have lived with two (not right for me, but still) and worked for and collaborated with so many more that I know they’re out there.
I read this guy on Twitter speculating that because men were taught for so many thousands of years that all they had to do to appeal to women was to offer the promise of financial security and now what? A life’s training in ashes. Now that so many women can provide financial security for themselves, and solvency's just a baseline for prospective partners, not keeping up with current modes of seduction have those men looking like deer caught in the headlights.
My sense is that men who didn't seen this train coming — whose *conversation* is just and only how financially secure they are (even if it’s not strictly on offer) — are striking out, and some are livid that they were promised something all their lives where the premise is no longer true (and blame it on women, instead of a patriarchal system that is no longer sustainable). A lot of men have been slow to step up, to embrace the suck of having all their early training reversed so rudely, to bring something more to the table, as the Twitter guy also said.
It's hard to read the tsunami of recent legislation in furtherance of controlling women's bodies, down to the efforts toward contraception prohibition, as anything other than an unmistakable effort to block women’s financial independence. Beats changing the pitch. There seems another shift coming: anyone else think a quasi-Lysistrata — or at least, a more stringent vetting of partners for ethics — is on its way, given that recent legislation is apparently intent on decimating the financial lives of millions of people who become pregnant, many of whom will likely end up single parents unable to cobble together childcare to allow for completion of the education that will provide the living wage to allow for the costs of raising a child, which was $233,610 (per the FDA in 2020) from age 0 to 18, (add ~$80K to ~180K for four years of higher ed)? Once the inevitable DNA-to-paycheck link is made and the AI code to enforce it is written, it’ll also hobble men when child support and education is inescapable.
Carrie, you have just somehow condensed four billion years of evolution into one supremely adroit essay explaining why Ms. Not is finding romance so difficult in 2021!
Thank you for the bravo, E. Jean! I do know it's all obvious and nothing new, but put it all in one run-on sentence, and the system does seem staggeringly rigged against women. And children.
Exceptional women who know their worth are a threat to most men. How many couples have we met and wondered, "why does she put up with him?" It sounds like you're not one to settle. Companionship with an equal partner is an ideal that's difficult to find.
Evolutionary Psychology tells us that humans look for the best mate they can qualify for but patriarchy has taught men that they shouldn't have to try too hard, that they're supposed to be in charge. That creates bullies and lazy minds. Keeping women's wages low and access to legal rights difficult, makes it harder for women to fight the status quo. Times are changing quicker than most men can adapt to. Men have also evolved to resist partnering. So finding one who's evolved as much as women have is rare!
The question is, how do you find an exceptional man? I've never found one.
Jeanne, ah, Jeanne, my friend---when you turn your high beams on the patriarchy, it DOES look difficult for Ms. Not to fall in love. But there ARE magnificent and exceptional chaps on this earth, YES, Jeanne! And I believe Ms. Not will bump into a few of them.
P.S. Several mothers in the Conflab are raising exceptionally good men, don't ya know.
There are wonderful men out there. They have jobs that don't seem interesting to you. They are younger, older, fatter, quieter. They haven't travelled, or been inside the museums you might love. They don't get your references or jokes at first. I ALWAYS assumed I would marry a rock'n'roll lawyer. Tattoos, first class flights, bespoke suits. And indeed I spent years with that exact fella. Who was a terrible, terrible partner. My husband is years younger than me, has a job as a government contractor, and is in no way who I imagined. Together we are discovering each other's worlds. He's learning to love my stuff, I'm learning to love his. (Except the Grateful Dead. He's a 'head and seriously, don't every single one of their songs sound exactly the same?) My point is that there are amazing men out there, they just aren't who you think they will be.
Yes. All the Dead's songs sound the same, but they fill venues reliably for their ethic: Deadheads have always seemed to follow the band around for the vibe they create, the love in the room. I'd go just to experience what my 'head friends tell me. Still, I'm with you on the music: those jams are interminable, and maybe all in the same key. (Btw, I adore your description of your journey to Husband.)
I do hope you are right about this. I gave up on men about 8 years ago. Not one of the men that I've met in my lifetime have been worth the trouble they caused. But, almost all my female friends are happily married. Most are also a notch more evolved than their husbands; that's to be expected, and... it proves your point, there is hope out there :)
Un-evolved men have put humanity in peril. I hope they get it together. As far as rewarding relationships go I hope she finds one of the good ones.
I agree with you about un-evolved men and the danger they pose. I feel lucky to have found my own evolved fellow - and I had many many years of feeling hopeless about it all. Terrible internet dates or OK dates and getting immediately ghosted. Or men who vanished when I asked to switch from text to phone. My own speciality was hitting the six month mark and then having the dude Peace Out when I showed my feelings for him.
I'm glad for you that you found a good one. I gave up after age 50 when I got involved with a guy who I thought was an adult, but turned out to be a lying cheater. I've been happier since. But I'm an introvert who enjoys spending time alone so I don't have the drive to keep searching:)
E Jean, perhaps she might want to look into universities for men who are weird (like me, like her) who are living fascinating lives. When my husband, a biologist, and I started dating he said, “Come to Switzerland with me and see how academics live.” Seriously. It was a small conference of 100 of the world’s leading mitochondrial DNA specialists up is the Alps near Gstaad. When the group got testy, the organizer helicoptered in a Russian violinist to play for them. (ha. I was sold). Another time we stayed in college at Oxford and sat at High Table. That level of intellectual discourse may interest her. Be sure to attend lectures that geology departments sponsor. Talk about rugged, enticing men who risk everything for their research!
Plus in academia you have a better chance of meeting a woke man. (of course, assholes do exist there, but at least the ones who are trying to be feminists are earnest ). (as in, they want to get laid
btw a senior academic wife (from Australia)showed me the ropes of traveling Switzerland by myself. Being a single mom, it was my first time abroad. Now I’d go anywhere by myself (except for COVID).
Have to add about the Sinema Conundrum. What the hell does she think she is playing at? My 2 cents is that she is addled by power, and the sound of her own name. How I loathe her. What a disappointment. Any Arizona readers here to chip in? My Tucson relatives say no one answers the phone at her offices, no matter how many times they call.
Senator Sinema holds a tremendous amount of power, C J! And the woman is hideously frustrating; but I'm not sure you and I should lose faith . . . yet!
I hope you are right. Either way, she has sewn the seeds of her own demise. There isn't a progressive in Arizona who will vote for her again, and she's deluding herself if she thinks the old guard Republicans will. I watch her fritter away this agonizingly short window of opportunity to do something, ANYTHING, for climate change, for the poor, for the desperate, and her lack of accountability and transparency boggles my mind.
Net worth, $1M; annual salary, $174K. Seems hinky to me, along with all the other GOP multi-millionaires with public-service salaries that aren't getting it from speaking engagements.
The Sinema thing hits home because people rallied hard to fight for her. Young people, DACA recipients, the elderly... they all imagined she was going to fight for them. And today she is running the F***ing Boston Marathon. Her contempt is beyond words.
I'm so, so sorry. That was my understanding, that so many fought for her (because the implied contract was that she'd fight for them). Contempt on top of flat-out betrayal is what most reliably flips my switch of rage.
I'm an Arizona resident who voted for her. I've since sent her messages through her government website telling her that I will be actively working to get her removed from her position in the next election. I've asked her why she's sold out to corporate donors and why she doesn't care about her voters. Of course there have been no responses from her.
I wonder if Arizona residents frustrated by her unanswered phones and messages are beginning to be moved to write letters to the editors of their local papers. She needs to be outed much more publicly for her despicable lack of accountability to her constituents. She duped everyone, including the press.
Dear Not Like Other Girls, What is it that's difficult about relationships? Has it always been this way? If I were to sprinkle special medicine to make it all well for you just as you would have liked a relationship to be, what would that look like? Have you thought about it? What is that all about? Do you not feel sexual desire, ever? Is it more mechanical for you? Have you had an orgasm with a man? Usually, one hangs around, or lets the man hang around to do a two fer to fill that lingering satisfying desire? So somewhere something seems missing from the picture. You need to find the key and unlock what you may be afraid of. Idk, but it's worth thinking about. It also seems like men aren't meeting you expectations or fulfilling their potential for you? Write down what you want. What excites you? Anything? Think about it all. You sound like a true beauty, what would make you happy and if you know that, start there... With love and best wishes, winners take all, so go get em.
This self-proclaimed weirdo’s letter, coupled with E. Jean’s interview with Abby Disney, and Patrice’s girl posse has me pondering the question at the heart of Auntie E’s last book, “What do we need men for?”
I mean seriously. No offense decent men, but good ones like yourselves are not “needed” (a word that implies lack) but are to be appreciated and cherished for being exceptions to the Cult of Dickweed.
My main question after reading - and hearing E. Jean claim she has faulty eyesight and can’t read (liar liar pants on fire) - Ms. Not’s letter is, “What do you feel is missing from your life if, as you say, you have a full social life, enjoy your work, and have not YET felt attracted to any men? Are you lonely? Are you craving intimacy or validation? Do you want children? Are you concerned there is something wrong with you?”
I am trying to understand why it is important to you to feel attracted to and involved with a man. Being coupled is not a sign of normalcy. Neither is “falling” in love (which often means feeling “lovesick”) or any of the other idiotic things women are told are normal such as worrying about breast size, clothing, hair, weight, muscle tone, and good god the smell of our vaginas. It’s all nonsense designed to make you doubt your self-worth and distract you from your real path and purpose - discovering and celebrating your uniqueness (i.e.weirdness).
That said, if you really would like to explore the whole male-female thing (which is quite normal and not at all weird), you may need to do some research to prime the pump. Frequenting different social circles is a good start. E. Jean’s suggestion that you spend time at sporting events isn’t bad (though I question the wisdom of rushing into men’s restrooms), but I would also recommend literary and music circles. Look for people who enjoy the things you enjoy. What are your hobbies and interests outside work, btw? For example, I like spending time with equine therapists, poets, and naturalists. Finally, may I suggest some daily journaling with writing prompts? I can recommend, “The Onward Workbook,” by Elena Aguilar, but there are literally hundreds of good ones. Ask your therapist for suggestions too.
Mostly I want you to know that “not being like other girls” does NOT make you unlovable. It makes you wonderfully and delightfully you. And, since there is only one you, it would be a crime to try to hide, change, or compare yourself to others. Trust me, your one-of-a-kind self is a gift. Please keep us posted on how things go. Hugs!
Wait, though! Wait! The parts that really jumped out at me were, “ALWAYS had trouble dating” and “see thousands of men and only find one or two attractive”. Fine Fox, have you considered you might be Asexual or Aromantic? This is a REAL, not often discussed, little-researched, yet completely valid and shameless ‘condition’; there are a million variants of it, it can be lifelong or phases, but it’s a perfectly natural, NOT as uncommon as you’d think, state. It has no reflection on your desirability, your capacity for tenderness or companionship, your personality, your worth or value… it’s (okay I am NOT an expert, this is just from my own limited research/discussions) just a response to sexuality that falls outside the heteronormative. WE DON’T ALL NEED TO HOOK UP!!! There is mind-boggling societal pressure to do so, but it’s not, in fact, a Rule, AT ALL.
Daria! Hail! I love that you IMMEDIATELY REPLIED. I too wondered, but Miss Not, herself says she considered it, but she does not think she is on the Aromantic "spectrum." Instead she yearns for a romantic love.
Sorry… I read more closely and saw you did consider that… but I want to super-clarify that asexual and aromantic are NOT the same thing! MANY asexual people (and I think that’s kind of an awful term, there should be a better one) have DEEP desires for romance and companionship.
I don’t know why I’m so jazzed up about this!!!!! The whole notion about sexual attraction as a necessary component has NOT BEEN AROUND FOREVER!! I just find it so fascinating. The ancient Greeks had, like, half a dozen different specific types of Love Relationships. Sexual desire/attraction before marriage wasn’t even A THING for like, a thousand years! Then there was courtly love, which was awesome, but chaste…. It’s all just a fascinating, fascinating are to study!!! Again… No Expert… but I’d be SO interested to try to learn how much the constant push towards sexual attracting people… ties directly into commerce, advertising. How to dress/do makeup/smell/ do your hair/ where to go/ what to buy, so you can Get That Man/Woman!!
It IS fascinating. Human beings are complex and I hate the way we are trained to think in boxes and compare ourselves to one another. Differences are to be celebrated and might just save us from extinction.
You just made me think of the excellent High Maintenance episode (SE4,02) "Trick" written by Isaac Oliver which artfully explores asexuality and aromantic relationships....and weirdness! A must see.
Ms. Not appears to be sabotaging herself. There are tons of great suggestions about putting herself into situations where she is likely to meet other people who have life experiences that give them a more nuanced vision of what is attractive in other people. However, I think Ms. Not doesn’t think she’s attractive or interesting or deserving of romantic attention and those self-sabotaging feelings do get telegraphed. Even (or especially?) on Tinder.
This feels like an internal work thing. Being weird is awesome. Being beautiful might get you a shared glance or a smile but having a personality gets you much farther. Living a life you find fulfilling and makes you want to get out of bed in the morning so you get to do what you love? That’s intoxicating for other people. We all want to bask in that glow (assuming what you love isn’t somehow disgusting or illegal) (and I’m sure even if what someone loves to do is disgusting and/or illegal there are probably other people who would get into it too).
Another idea in addition to the brilliant suggestions already submitted…volunteer work. Whether it’s Habitat for Humanity, river/lake/seashore conservation, your local animal shelter, food pantry, park and/or trail maintenance/repair, birding, Sierra Club, political campaign…no matter what the cause, you will meet people who are investing time and energy in making a difference, no matter how big or small. Committed, interesting people. And let these people know that you are single and looking and would appreciate “referrals”. You will be increasing your odds of turning up cool candidates AND doing good at the same time. This is the voice of experience…my husband and I met in our late 30s at a Landmark Education seminar and have been together for 25 years. And we still volunteer. Sometimes taking the focus off yourself and putting it on others opens up a different set of possibilities. Good luck!
This works. It's how I met my husband also...I was a volunteer on a real estate board in Boston years ago, and one of the other participants (my friend had a roommate) whom I ended up marrying.
P.S.: Every one of these newsletters is more lit than the last! And I'm so happy Mary Trump has made you do the podcast portion: it's great hearing your voice married to your voice on the page. The full E. Jean experience.
What Carrie said. I like to tease you, but it is a delight to hear your voice as It feels like you and Guff are plopping down on my couch to have some wine and a chat. Hugs!
CONFLABBIANS!! You're gonna love Ms.Not Like Other Girls even more when you read her response to your wonderful advice:
Dear E. Jean,
First of all, thank you for making me blush AND laugh! Its been a while since I genuinely laughed about something that mostly makes me feel rotten inside, so hats off to you! I never considered myself an Ava Gardner, but its true I used to dress like a secretary from a 1950s B-movie, and that seems close enough.
Ive been thinking about my letter to you ever since I sent it. I think the Conflab correctly identified that I need to think more strategically about how many men I am meeting and where. I realized this... I don't see men as potential friends when I meet them, but always as potential life partners first. That puts way too much pressure on me and often sets me up for disappointment. And it's practically objectifying on some level, right? (Kind of like when men see me only as a sexual object, for example.)
And so I think I am due some re-strategizing... and stop seeing men either as princes on horses or total assholes only, but you know, maybe as human beings, with all faults and upbringing of patriarchy. You and several commenters correctly identified that perhaps the first issue to work on, however, is the irrational belief that I do not deserve love and am not worthy of it. When I was writing my letter to you, and realized it, it broke my heart. I don't want to spend my life alone but now I understand that if that happens for whatever reason, at least the relationship I have with myself should be healthy and fulfilling. I don't know where to start with accepting my weirdness and knowing that I am worthy of love after three decades of not doing that. But I have friends, therapy and myself to help me on my way, I suppose.
Many thanks to the Conflab too, I am honestly humbled by the time and effort the community put into answers and sharing their stories. I have a lot to reflect on in the coming weeks and so many suggestions to refer back to. Please give them my thanks if you can.
Lastly, I loved your voice delivery, and I hope this is a permanent feature now!
All my best,
Ms. YES
E. Jean said it, and I'll say it too: all the finest people are weird.
This isn't a cop-out or an excuse or a dodge. It's the absolute truth. Nobody who is interesting isn't at least somewhat weird. Maybe even a LOT weird.
Whatever it is about you that you're privately fretting about as your 'weirdness'? These are exactly the things that make you intriguing, outstanding, remarkable, and unpredictable. (Dressing like a secretary from a 1950s B-movie? Weird. And amazingly individualistic, memorable, intriguing and fun!)
Keep in mind that people who recognize their own eccentricities and quirks as their strength and their source of power (E. Jean is one such person) have the BEST time. And people who have the best time attract other people to them ... because who doesn't want to be around someone who enjoys life?
Which is to say that of *course* you deserve love, Ms. Yes. And you also deserve to think of yourself as weird in a POSITIVE way -- in a way that sets you apart from the poor benighted souls who are dull and conformist and uncurious and unquestioning, and who may live their whole lives never getting to be weird at all. Pity them, Ms. Yes ... and then embrace your OWN weirdness!
You are correct, E. Jean, I love her even more. What a great follow-on letter.
And curiously, it seems that accepting your own weirdness is, de facto, allowing the space for the person you've shaped yourself into being, in an "I am the queen of me" sense. The fact that Ms. YES has gone further abroad into what ... she? or another? ... considers to be weirdness seems that she has, to date, valued her own creativity and unique expression beyond others' prescriptions of how to be. She's her own damn art project: how would her honoring of herself in this way NOT be wildly attractive?
Ms Yes, this isn’t advice, but just a lil something I thought I’d throw out there. I was in my late 20s before I had a “real” boyfriend. I had had crushes and ‘situations’ and hookups and went on dates, but I got a real late start on a relationship with someone who would call me his girlfriend.
But ya know what? I still had relationships. I still met someone and got married and the whole shabang. Getting off the ground a little later than some other folks doesn’t mean you can’t still get where you wanna go.
Also, what’s hotter than a retro Secretary vibe?
But, Mac, this IS advice---and very, very, very splendid and do-able advice!
Dear Not Like Other Girls: Actually, you ARE like the select few of other girls; you are smart, gorgeous and analytical. You know what you want and who you are in a world where most people don't. Your narrative is not the first I've seen that expresses such dismay and probably won't be the last. Right now, in my girl posse, I have about 15 gorgeous women who are in their mid-30s to mid-40s who have never been married and are wondering the same things you are. My BFF is in her 50s and has never been married. She looks like a more refined version of Halle Berry. My other BFF, is sexy AF. She has the most stunning skin, is willowy, tall, breath-stopping gorgeous and has a sense of style that is dynamite. Actually, she can't keep men away from her. But she says they suck as do the others. They can't have a decent conversation, they dress terribly, their hygiene is questionable and it's obvious they only want one thing from her but could never even do that very well. My girl posse says that men don't woo women anymore. And many of them know zilch about sex but what they've seen in porn. There are too many things, on social media, that men think they should have from women, without bringing anything to the table, e.g. submission from a woman but the man has nothing. The stories I've heard have made me believe that if my husband predeceases me, I will never get married again nor will I probably date. My mom was widowed youngish, at 65. She has had a lot of men, in her age group, try it. But she says the same. They suck. She is well off so men are looking for a "nurse and a purse". She's now 85 and says it's not generational because the old codgers who try to get with her suck too. Most of the women, in my girl posse, haven't been "with" a man, sexually, in years. They say it's just not worth it and all of them are modern enough to have toys to take care of things.
These women are bosses. They are very successful entrepreneurs, hellcats in pretty decent metal bands, high level managers... they all make an eff-ton of money and live quite well, travel and have the most beautiful sanctuaries (their homes). But they all say the same thing. The men just aren't worthy and seem like they really don't want to be. So they live their best lives possible and have planned to have a high-class "Golden Girls" situation when they reach a certain age. I don't blame them.
Basically, I don't know what to tell you. I think we may have reached the Dark Ages of relationships. Remember how we were taught, in Biology, that women always sought out the best of the gene pool to hook up with/get married to so their progeny would be the best, genetically? And men supposedly "competed" to be that choice? Mm, hm. Look at where we are now. Do we really have that dynamic? Did we ever? I can only say that you must live your best life, without men, and live it well. Truth to tell, I was just like you, when I turned 30. I told my mom that my Mr. Right was probably some Soviet dude who was wondering if his Ms. Right was an American girl and never the two should meet. I didn't get married until I was 35. He showed up when I least expected it. Cliché, I know, but this is why these aphorisms ARE cliché, because they are often true. And really, if we had the answers to this question, we'd he rich AF. I can't tell you to "do something" like change your lipstick or wear pink or drench yourself in some pheromone-inducing perfume. If that shit worked, there would be no Dr. Phil, no self-help books, no E-Harmony... it would all just work and everyone would be booed up with their gender of choice. Whatever you're looking for, I hope you find it. But remember this... only you can make you happy. Don't depend on someone else to do it. Blessings!
Do you hear that thunder, Patrice?
Listen.
Hear it? That sound coming from Mt. Olympus? It is the gods applauding. Me too. I loved every word, every syllable, every letter of every syllable; but when you wrote:
"Remember how we were taught, in Biology, that women always sought out the best of the gene pool to hook up with/get married to so their progeny would be the best, genetically? And men supposedly "competed" to be that choice? Mm, hm. Look at where we are now. Do we really have that dynamic? Did we ever?"
That was IT!
What a breath of fresh air, of pulling the curtains aside, Patrice. Combined with the previous observation of what type of men the Patriarchy produces, the lop-sided numbers begin to make sense. The one thing I have to add to the conversation is that, in the older population, the men that haven't lived in such a way as to piss off their wives, that is those that are still married or long-term partnered, may fit the interest requirements, and get a second look; but they aren't available.
Patrice! Ms. Not has responded, see above!
It's so true, though. And what's really amazing is how the entitlement has leached into the older generations where men were trained to be gentlemen. My mom was looking to hire a master cabinet maker when she was building her house. She was told, by her general contractor, that this old guy was the best in the city so she interviewed him. He asked her to ride with him to go see some of his work, both commercial and residential. As they were riding, he said, "Are you single? A fine woman like you? We need to shack up, share our checks and take care of each other. You are building that fine, big house and plan to live in it alone?" My mom was stunned. She replied, "Yes, I plan to live alone. Not interested in a relationship, no matter what. Not interested in in sharing my money or my space." Then he was stunned and probably a little miffed. "Well, I'm a catch in the octogenarian circles. Women love me and will do anything for me. In fact, I had a young thing, about 60, who would bring me sandwiches when I demanded it. She make it and bring it to my house. What makes you so special?" My mom said they were sitting at a red light. She jumped out of his truck, called her contractor and told him to come and get her. The cabinet maker begged her to rethink it but she said no way in Hell would she hire a guy who had no professionalism and was using his job to score women. This guy was 86!!! I wish this story was an exaggeration but her general contractor confirmed it and apologized profusely for the grizzled masher's behavior. The entitlement is fierce.
86! Gawd love 'im!!
Before I left Montana in 2009, I was building a house. That is, I was hiring a string of all male contractors to build my house. What a ride. One memorable conversation was when the person that I was employing felt that he had to stop, arms akimbo, and explain to me that he didn't support any of that female empowerment crap. I can't remember his terms, feminism or whatever; but I remember his purpose. I should stop trying to have him do the work as agreed-upon, and just be happy that he'd deigned to work on the job at all, being as how he'd lowered himself to work for a sub-class of person. It was constant. I figure I paid for that house three times over in literal dollars. Another contractor mansplained to me that not all contractors were out to cheat me, and that I should be more trusting. This was in response to insisting that the job specs be spelled out in a written contract. I eventually came to the conclusion, post-marriage, that "I love you," when stated by a traditionally raised woman meant, "I am overjoyed to be sharing my life with you, you make the world a better place, and I'd give my limited heartbeats to save or help you." However, when stated by a traditionally raised man in this Patriarchal society, the same words meant to him, "If I say this to you, it will lock you in the chains of providing to me everything that you are able to produce or do. I will repeat the phrase as necessary to keep you producing." I am perfectly willing to hear how jaded I am; but this is my observed truth. As evidence of the scarcity of men who are actually at ease with Equity, as opposed to those who say that they are, count the number of men contributors to this newsletter. Then filter those few by those that contribute worthwhile insight. The dearth of numbers becomes painfully obvious.
Jaded?
You sawed the wood on those contractors, dried it, compressed it, and put it in your pellet stove!
Sorry if you can’t hear me responding over the global applause I’ve incited in recognition of your comment, Elena Rose. Yeehaw!, you’ve nailed it. (Sorry for the construction pun.)
I know, right? All women everywhere who have had to deal with trades that have successfully excluded women from their ranks feel this one. When the still-extant woodshop classes in my son's secondary school were forced to admit girls, the students no longer brought home woodshop projects of laminated cutting boards or kitchen stools. Instead, they showed up with miniature bridges made from popsicle sticks. Very much the same thing as filling in the public swimming pools in lieu of integration. Guess they showed us. --- https://oregontradeswomen.org/ . --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Manuel
I’m just glad you still see the humor in it, because you inspire me to do the same, and I am getting REAL bitter these days.
Elena Roooooossssssseeeee. Ms. Not has responded. See above.
Excellent advice, Ken!
Ken, Ms. Not has replied. See above!
Thankfully, my mom got her house built and it is stunningly gorgeous! She hired another cabinet maker who did a fabulous job on all her cabinets from the kitchen to the bathrooms. This is her dream house and certainly fulfilled everything she wanted despite the idiocy of the coot. My mom is super strong willed so she can get anything done, no matter what obstacles are in her path.
The topic change is worth talking about. If Not Like Other Girls is intimidating (which is a loaded word and has all kinds of connotations), what's wrong with that? I have been pegged intimidating myself but it should be expected after having served 22 years in the US Navy, the last few as a commanding senior officer who was rarely questioned. I never had a God complex (like some did) but I was intolerant of nonsense, game-playing and idiocy. Basically, my home training and the Navy made me. And yes, men were intimidated (they told me so; one tried to tell me I needed to be "tamed") but I was looking for a man on my level and thank goodness my husband came along. He revels in my so-called intimidation because he was a Naval officer himself and got to know me. In fact, he says he learned a lot from me. If you don't cross me, you won't feel the brunt of it. And it gets any job done. I should note that a lot of White people think Black women are intimidating if we're just standing, waiting for the bus and minding our own business; not my job to put them at ease. If they don't make an effort to get to know me like I do for them, not much I can do. Also, I think too much responsibility has been put upon women, in general, to "adjust" ourselves so men will feel better about themselves when they speak with us. Yeah, no. That has been tantamount to asking women to hide their real selves. Doesn't bode well, when, years later, she can't expend the energy anymore to be that someone else. Ciara has a song, "Level Up" (great song to dance to!). I'm thinking that a lot of (not all) men need to do this. They need to bring themselves up to our level. The barn door is open. Women will never be Donna Reed or June Cleaver again.
In my younger days, my intimidated bosses would try to start affairs with me. If they could possess me, they could control me, and that was almost as good as not being upset that their promised superiority, and my inferiority, had not been delivered. I remember, vividly, the look on one man's face when I stopped our enjoyable lunch conversation at an away-job with, "Take your hand off my shoulder." He adjusted; we continued to have a good working relationship. We need to finish ripping those fecking (thank you Irish ladies) barn doors off the hinges.
I'm with you on ripping off the barn doors. And as I said, "taming". That made me laugh because they actually thought they had the golden gonads to whip me into submission. Dream on.
Hmmm...I was struck by the line "I have an active social life and have worked in a bunch of environments in my twenties and yet, I never see men around me I find attractive (not even physically)."
Okay. So where ARE you seeing men you find attractive?
If the answer is "bah, nowhere, there are no such creatures", then the question becomes "are there *women* you find attractive? And where are you seeing them?" And we go from there.
If the answer is "I'm seeing men I'm attracted to in places where I'm not active socially, or in work environments other than mine", then we can look at ways to GET you to those places by changing your social patterns. E. Jean has suggested a number of sporting events, but if sporting events aren't your scene -- and if you're really not interested in guys who base their lives around sports -- there are also libraries, writing groups, book clubs, LARP events, art classes, philosophy lectures, museum events, sailing lessons, charity fundraisers, comic cons, engine repair lessons .... the list goes on.
If the answer is "only in the movies", then you need to talk to your therapist about the unrealistic expectations a two-hour movie can set up in terms of lifelong romantic scenarios.
Oh, and Tinder is really NOT the way to meet up with the person you're looking for. There are far more effective on-line services...E. Jean has mentioned some of them!
ALSO -- weird is good. I know nobody in a successful relationship who DOESN'T think their partner is a little weird...in a good way. I mean, *nobody* says, "I was attracted to her utter lack of personality quirks", or "I chose the love of my life because they are crushingly average, and they possess no distinctive individuality at all."
Embrace your weirdness ... it's what makes you attractive!
Egads, Kal! ENGINE REPAIR LESSONS! That is so sparkling with brilliance I can't even comprehend it! As is your entire essay.
And let us all just celebrate your last line:
"Embrace your weirdness ... it's what makes you attractive!"
(You used an exclamation point, Kal-----a rare splurge of impetuosity, professor!)
A professor who uses exclamation points? Guess I'm just weird that way!
LOL we like you even better for those exclamation points!
What’s so exciting about the idea of lessons / learning is how it casts a wider net than just the instructor(s) involved: interests are a magnet for those who share them. Like when makers gather maker communities, people make community around their interests. I know a woman who went to a science meetup for both these reasons, the shared interest and the wider net, and married a sweetheart of a guy, a futurist and author who adores her.
That “bah, nowhere, there are no such creatures” was such perfect, succinct summation of Ms. Not’s seeming train of thought, but also the not believing she’ll ever find love and thinking she doesn’t deserve it? Absolutely central to the holdup. These beliefs are … unhelpful, dear Ms. Not. Please consider naming these works-spanners for the self-sabotage they are and banish them from your repertoire of thought (i.e., replace each with its opposite). You actively create in reality what you’ve entertained most often in the privacy of your mind. When you meet someone consistently revealing a shimmering core of being that lights you up, the who of who they are is the aphrodisiac, which will be visible only if you actively subscribe to the possibility of connection and are willing to be vulnerable to get it and will allow for at least five minutes of talk to see if it might be here, in this corner of humanity. If you are someone who thinks finding such persons is possible. Otherwise, you miss it, like when you look for your glasses which are on your head.
This got me started thinking what I’d do in that direction (thank you for bringing our attention to this underappreciated goldmine, Kal — great list, great POST, btw). I’m beyond curious what others here would get up to. I’ve been thinking about glass and wood- and fine metalworking and upholstery lessons (and bench time for all), but also the interests best done in a group, i.e., kayaking and hiking and maybe mushroom hunting or naturalist series with emphases on foraging or birdwatching or trail maintenance (had a family member do this till he was 92) or plein air watercolor or Lindy and West Coast Swing. Any one of hundreds of areas of technique in the realm of cooking, which I’ve only recently come to love when I finally acquired the ability to improvise reliably. Speaking of improv, maybe comedy: I love to laugh, and love finding people who are attracted to improvisational conversation (by nature, ENGAGED conversation) which turns to banter, which, with encouragement, turns to flirting. Maybe make swimming part of my life, get up the nerve to dive. Learning the languages specific to all these interests, and Italian, French, and Spanish to boot. Join (or start) a casual jazz or blues jam, start playing with others more, develop my improvisational skills. I like the museum events idea a lot. And the thought of upping my forays to book readings and live music and art openings and lecture series.
The leanings of the way I want to live my life with another (or with others) make for an attraction toward the curious, fully engaged in the experience of living in their physical existence and in this world and in their bodies, not watchers but doers. (Why videogaming and sports-watching seem like nonstarters.) — I expect engaging in some of these interest arenas is still possible via teleconferencing. I expect people are working out protocols offline for in-person nurturing of what have begun to be good online friendships.
You all? Where do you look for connection (either primary partner or friendship), and where would you if you were trying a new venue? In what direction would your curiosity take you? There is no group of oracles whose answers to this question would intrigue me more.
Carrie! Your list is precious, thoughtful, inventive, wily and DO-ABLE!! I hope Ms. Not memorizes it, along with every other wise idea you offered!
Thank you, dear E. Jean! Doable, right? and then the knowledge and community as a bonus. -- I personally hope Ms. Not gets with the trowel and digs up those weeds first, or no matter where she is, he (/she) could be right in front of her and she'll never even see them. It's a "but not for me" head that she's cultivated and it's like a scrim, with her belief determining its opaqueness/transparency, but first, she has to find the polar opposite (of "I'll never find love" and "I don't deserve love") and slot the new ones in their place.
Carrie, Ms. Not responded! See above.
You've already hit on a great one with improv classes. Improv classes aren't really about learning to be funny ... they're about learning to work with others on stage to explore a situation and find the truth in it. (If you're doing it right, the funniness will soon flow from there.) Which means that because improv is about making connections, if you stick with it and stay true to the spirit of what improv is really about, it can rapidly expand your social circle -- possibly leading to romance, but more than probably at least leading to some long-term friendships.
Gosh improv is so exciting, deliciously challenging, and empowering!
You spotted my favorite. I did take classes once in L.A. and they were all that and more. Especially the debrief afterward at Canter's, with teacher and most of the class. Just crazy fun. Improv in any form, this way, or with music, or within any art, lights me up more than I have words for.
Also, you sound like you've done improv and done it right.
Yup, I've taken improv at Second City. I had no illusions I would become a performer...I just did it for some creative fun. In fact, I'd recommend improv classes to anyone who's interested in writing, or communicating, or just hanging out with bright, quick-witted people.
Too envious for words.
YES! “Embrace your weirdness ... it's what makes you attractive!”
Weird is Good! Exactly. My own extremely proper, Mr. All America, and I have a nightly routine... where we both imitate various animals, and chase each other around the apartment in full Animal Kingdom LARP mode for a good ten minutes or so. We are middle-aged conventional people! Neither of us have ever had a relationship where our weirdness is celebrated by our partner. WEIRD IS GOOD.
LOVE!
Kal, Ms. Not responded. See above!
Whenever I hear a woman say she doesn't want to be like other girls, it breaks my little old hippie-chick feminist heart. What do you think is so wrong with other girls that you have to distance yourself from them? And what other girls? Are you thinking that all other girls are like the Kardashians? Or like the Real Housewives? Or sitcom girls -- who are, btw, mostly written by men? What caused this dislike of other girls?
Because here's the thing. If you have no female friends, you aren't ready for men.
Friendship with other women -- good, solid, healthy friendships -- will grow your butt up better than any other relationships you will ever have. True friendship with other women requires Olympic-caliber honesty, self-awareness, kindness, empathy, humor, generosity and strong boundaries.
All of which come in damn handy when dealing with any romantic/sexual relationship.
I mean this with all of the kindness, etc. I have, but I think the reason you cannot find a man to be attracted to is that you have no idea of who you are. Because no one who knows herself fearlessly and honestly right down to her mitichlorians feels that she does not deserve love.
The fact that you are in therapy is good, but my advice is to forget about men for a little while and get you some girlfriends, too. They will help you figure out who you are, and once you know that, you'll have a better idea of what your deal-breakers are in a relationship. Without knowing those, you're more likely to end up in a ho-hum, settled-too-soon relationship than a happily ever after partnership.
I have been married twice, but I did not meet the love of my life until I had been completely and happily alone for eight years, when I was 52. He is 10 years younger than me. I was refusing to even consider giving him a chance, but my girlfriends straightened me all the way out and here we are more than 10 years later. He is more than worth all of the hard work I had to do to figure out who I am, what I can bring to a relationship and what I require in return.
Once you do that work, I guarantee that you will start attracting -- and maybe, hopefully, being attracted to -- a man who is worthy of the woman you are on your way to being.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you so much luck, fun and adventure. And love. <3
Well, Brynnetania! You've done it this time!
This essay is so true, so acute, so tender, so wise, so RIGHT, so plush with marvelous ideas---I think you could use it as a treatment---- the basis for sit-com.
That is, if you are not already working on a couple of tv projects at the moment.
I have to agree. My girl posse rocks. In fact, several of my women friends have been with me for decades. My bestie has been with me since I was in the womb (she's a year older than me and our parents were best friends), so 62 years. Another one is at 48 years and still another at 35. We've all been friends longer than I've been married (27 years). There's no way I'd be me without them. We've been with each other through thick and thin. Can't live without my homegirls.
This is extraordinary and strangely comforting. Now my mom has passed, the person who has known me longest has been in my life 17 years.
Oh I love this Brynne, “If you have no female friends, you aren't ready for men.”
Brynnetania! Ms. Not has responded! See above.
Been burned to many times by the Sisterhood to trust it
I am so sorry to hear this. I have also been hurt badly by other women, but I can honestly say that in at least a few cases the fault was mine for not seeing them clearly. I am not saying that's the case with you. Just sending warm, strong hugs.
Oh…that is very sad to hear.
*too
I'm going to go out on a "call me a misandrist" limb, but maybe NLOG, you're just too smart for this shit? I mean, I had a single "long" term relationship after college, which lasted all of 13 months. Then at 27, I met my future husband. By 30 I was married, and by 40 I was headed for a long-overdue divorce with two young kids in tow. I dated a bit here and there after my divorce, took a lover for a bit (really just for sex. We were never dating.). Then I ended up in a nearly four-year relationship with a guy who moved into my house with his two kids while it turns out, he was pursuing other women online the entire time. He left me in the spring for his "soulmate" [feel free to insert vomit sounds here].
There ARE good men out there. My lover was a good one, and still is, but not the right one for me. It's possible I recently met a good one that is right for me, but the jury's still out on that one. I'm nearly 50. That's right, two possibly good ones in thirty years of being out there.
Not to be a downer, but patriarchy makes most men self-absorbed at best, dangerous and narcissistic at worst. Also, emotionally stunted and defensive about it. Maybe you're not finding men you're attracted to because there is some part of you that senses the relative futility of finding a man who is worthy of your obvious intelligence and delightful weirdness, who won't just be focused on your reportedly enviable good looks.
Maybe you're ultimately a sapiosexual, meaning you're highly attracted to people's minds and intelligence. If you've bought the culture's idea that you and all your potential mates should be seeking each other out based on looks, then no wonder you're not "attracted to them". You aren't looking for the right thing. *You're* looking for someone as complex and interesting as yourself, and that is a tall order if you're shopping for a cis-man. Not impossible, but I can tell you for sure that I hadn't met a single man by 30, including the man I married, who was as interesting, emotionally intelligent, and smart as I am. Clearly, neither have you.
I don't think your quest to find a partner, if that is truly what you want, is doomed. I just think that for a woman who actually wants a man to match her for looks, smarts, and delicious weirdness the quest may be a long one, and that's okay. I wouldn't trade my kids. They're great. But I wish I hadn't had to go through so many shitty men to end up at nearly 50, happily living in my own house with them and nobody the hell else.
Give yourself a break. Maybe think about pursuing older men, who've been around long enough to get some humility and wisdom under their belts? Maybe stop looking in bars and at events, which tend to be shallow and superficial spaces, and seek out a spiritual community so you might meet men who care about deeper things than just your looks? Maybe sign up for some classes on subjects that are really interesting to *you* and see who else is similarly interested? Maybe start looking for men who are interesting to you as people, and the physical attraction might sneak in the door when you're not looking?
I think you're doing great (though I am sorry about the abuse and assault, because that's heinous). And I don't think you're taking too long. I suspect you just haven't taken quite long enough to think about what piques your interest and really turns your crank. You're just following the usual script for women and you're, as you say, not like other girls. You want more and better than most of us settle for, as well you should.
Asha! What a rambunctious and marvelous adventure you are living!
You might have called it with with the Sapiosexual possibility.
"Maybe you're ultimately a sapiosexual, meaning you're highly attracted to people's minds and intelligence. If you've bought the culture's idea that you and all your potential mates should be seeking each other out based on looks, then no wonder you're not "attracted to them". You aren't looking for the right thing. *You're* looking for someone as complex and interesting as yourself, and that is a tall order if you're shopping for a cis-man. Not impossible, but I can tell you for sure that I hadn't met a single man by 30, including the man I married, who was as interesting, emotionally intelligent, and smart as I am. Clearly, neither have you."
Woman, that is THE STUFF!!!
This is so true in my experience, “Not to be a downer, but patriarchy makes most men self-absorbed at best, dangerous and narcissistic at worst. Also, emotionally stunted and defensive about it.”
Sapiosexual - finally someone gives me a word to describe myself! Thank you, Asha.
Ahhhhhhhhh!
Thanks for your gift of this su stack, E. Jean
*substack
Asha, Ms. Not has responded. See above!
I know Patrice and Jena and Asha are not dreaming; I’ve heard this from women, that finding good men is difficult, but all my friends who are married are married to gems, and I have lived with two (not right for me, but still) and worked for and collaborated with so many more that I know they’re out there.
I read this guy on Twitter speculating that because men were taught for so many thousands of years that all they had to do to appeal to women was to offer the promise of financial security and now what? A life’s training in ashes. Now that so many women can provide financial security for themselves, and solvency's just a baseline for prospective partners, not keeping up with current modes of seduction have those men looking like deer caught in the headlights.
My sense is that men who didn't seen this train coming — whose *conversation* is just and only how financially secure they are (even if it’s not strictly on offer) — are striking out, and some are livid that they were promised something all their lives where the premise is no longer true (and blame it on women, instead of a patriarchal system that is no longer sustainable). A lot of men have been slow to step up, to embrace the suck of having all their early training reversed so rudely, to bring something more to the table, as the Twitter guy also said.
It's hard to read the tsunami of recent legislation in furtherance of controlling women's bodies, down to the efforts toward contraception prohibition, as anything other than an unmistakable effort to block women’s financial independence. Beats changing the pitch. There seems another shift coming: anyone else think a quasi-Lysistrata — or at least, a more stringent vetting of partners for ethics — is on its way, given that recent legislation is apparently intent on decimating the financial lives of millions of people who become pregnant, many of whom will likely end up single parents unable to cobble together childcare to allow for completion of the education that will provide the living wage to allow for the costs of raising a child, which was $233,610 (per the FDA in 2020) from age 0 to 18, (add ~$80K to ~180K for four years of higher ed)? Once the inevitable DNA-to-paycheck link is made and the AI code to enforce it is written, it’ll also hobble men when child support and education is inescapable.
Wheels within wheels, eh?
Carrie, you have just somehow condensed four billion years of evolution into one supremely adroit essay explaining why Ms. Not is finding romance so difficult in 2021!
Bravo!!
Thank you for the bravo, E. Jean! I do know it's all obvious and nothing new, but put it all in one run-on sentence, and the system does seem staggeringly rigged against women. And children.
Carrie, did I tell you? (I can't remember!) Ms. Not responded! See above.
Yes yes! Love that letter.
So well said, Carrie!!!
Exceptional women who know their worth are a threat to most men. How many couples have we met and wondered, "why does she put up with him?" It sounds like you're not one to settle. Companionship with an equal partner is an ideal that's difficult to find.
Evolutionary Psychology tells us that humans look for the best mate they can qualify for but patriarchy has taught men that they shouldn't have to try too hard, that they're supposed to be in charge. That creates bullies and lazy minds. Keeping women's wages low and access to legal rights difficult, makes it harder for women to fight the status quo. Times are changing quicker than most men can adapt to. Men have also evolved to resist partnering. So finding one who's evolved as much as women have is rare!
The question is, how do you find an exceptional man? I've never found one.
Jeanne, ah, Jeanne, my friend---when you turn your high beams on the patriarchy, it DOES look difficult for Ms. Not to fall in love. But there ARE magnificent and exceptional chaps on this earth, YES, Jeanne! And I believe Ms. Not will bump into a few of them.
P.S. Several mothers in the Conflab are raising exceptionally good men, don't ya know.
There are wonderful men out there. They have jobs that don't seem interesting to you. They are younger, older, fatter, quieter. They haven't travelled, or been inside the museums you might love. They don't get your references or jokes at first. I ALWAYS assumed I would marry a rock'n'roll lawyer. Tattoos, first class flights, bespoke suits. And indeed I spent years with that exact fella. Who was a terrible, terrible partner. My husband is years younger than me, has a job as a government contractor, and is in no way who I imagined. Together we are discovering each other's worlds. He's learning to love my stuff, I'm learning to love his. (Except the Grateful Dead. He's a 'head and seriously, don't every single one of their songs sound exactly the same?) My point is that there are amazing men out there, they just aren't who you think they will be.
C. J.!! I salute you. I salute you again!
And......
I salute you one more time!
thank you! and I return your salute with many of my own!
Yes. All the Dead's songs sound the same, but they fill venues reliably for their ethic: Deadheads have always seemed to follow the band around for the vibe they create, the love in the room. I'd go just to experience what my 'head friends tell me. Still, I'm with you on the music: those jams are interminable, and maybe all in the same key. (Btw, I adore your description of your journey to Husband.)
Oh what a lovely testament to the power of love to transcend our expectations, CJ
Ms. Not has replied, C J. See above!
I do hope you are right about this. I gave up on men about 8 years ago. Not one of the men that I've met in my lifetime have been worth the trouble they caused. But, almost all my female friends are happily married. Most are also a notch more evolved than their husbands; that's to be expected, and... it proves your point, there is hope out there :)
Un-evolved men have put humanity in peril. I hope they get it together. As far as rewarding relationships go I hope she finds one of the good ones.
I agree with you about un-evolved men and the danger they pose. I feel lucky to have found my own evolved fellow - and I had many many years of feeling hopeless about it all. Terrible internet dates or OK dates and getting immediately ghosted. Or men who vanished when I asked to switch from text to phone. My own speciality was hitting the six month mark and then having the dude Peace Out when I showed my feelings for him.
I'm glad for you that you found a good one. I gave up after age 50 when I got involved with a guy who I thought was an adult, but turned out to be a lying cheater. I've been happier since. But I'm an introvert who enjoys spending time alone so I don't have the drive to keep searching:)
ugh, lying cheaters are despicable. It's better to be happily single than miserably together, that's for sure.
Ms. Not has replied! See above, Jeanne!
Who wants to be like other girls 🤪
EGGGGGZACTLY, Longer!! Exactly!!
E Jean, perhaps she might want to look into universities for men who are weird (like me, like her) who are living fascinating lives. When my husband, a biologist, and I started dating he said, “Come to Switzerland with me and see how academics live.” Seriously. It was a small conference of 100 of the world’s leading mitochondrial DNA specialists up is the Alps near Gstaad. When the group got testy, the organizer helicoptered in a Russian violinist to play for them. (ha. I was sold). Another time we stayed in college at Oxford and sat at High Table. That level of intellectual discourse may interest her. Be sure to attend lectures that geology departments sponsor. Talk about rugged, enticing men who risk everything for their research!
What HEAVEN you describe, Longer!
What PARADISE!
A Russian violinist FLOWN IN to calm the frayed annoyances of 100 leading mitochondrial DNA experts!!!!
Paganini! True bliss
OMG yes - Geologists. Paleontology is fascinating as are seismology and heat flow (if you can handle the math.)
and you should hear them talk about carbonates lol
Snort. That’s a new one for me. I dated a geologist for 8 years and a paleontologist nearly got me killed on a field trip.
Plus in academia you have a better chance of meeting a woke man. (of course, assholes do exist there, but at least the ones who are trying to be feminists are earnest ). (as in, they want to get laid
THIS is such a good idea, Longer!
In other words if you are “weird” go where the “weird men are
Har! Love it!
Totally with you on this, Longer!
btw a senior academic wife (from Australia)showed me the ropes of traveling Switzerland by myself. Being a single mom, it was my first time abroad. Now I’d go anywhere by myself (except for COVID).
Longer! Ms. Not has responded. See above!
ps Well done you, E Jean, reading your column. Love that you had to paws 🐾 . . .
Thank you, Longer!
And love the pictograph!
Right?! If anyone EVER has the nerve to call me normal they will be asking for trouble.
I like living at the edge of the forest. Village life is not for me
Have to add about the Sinema Conundrum. What the hell does she think she is playing at? My 2 cents is that she is addled by power, and the sound of her own name. How I loathe her. What a disappointment. Any Arizona readers here to chip in? My Tucson relatives say no one answers the phone at her offices, no matter how many times they call.
Senator Sinema holds a tremendous amount of power, C J! And the woman is hideously frustrating; but I'm not sure you and I should lose faith . . . yet!
I hope you are right. Either way, she has sewn the seeds of her own demise. There isn't a progressive in Arizona who will vote for her again, and she's deluding herself if she thinks the old guard Republicans will. I watch her fritter away this agonizingly short window of opportunity to do something, ANYTHING, for climate change, for the poor, for the desperate, and her lack of accountability and transparency boggles my mind.
She is despicable and should be ashamed of herself. That’s all I have to say on the matter other than, “Vote Her Out!”
Yup; she is a Republican in Democratic clothing. It would seem she has better things to do right now than run the Boston marathon
Net worth, $1M; annual salary, $174K. Seems hinky to me, along with all the other GOP multi-millionaires with public-service salaries that aren't getting it from speaking engagements.
The Sinema thing hits home because people rallied hard to fight for her. Young people, DACA recipients, the elderly... they all imagined she was going to fight for them. And today she is running the F***ing Boston Marathon. Her contempt is beyond words.
I'm so, so sorry. That was my understanding, that so many fought for her (because the implied contract was that she'd fight for them). Contempt on top of flat-out betrayal is what most reliably flips my switch of rage.
I'm an Arizona resident who voted for her. I've since sent her messages through her government website telling her that I will be actively working to get her removed from her position in the next election. I've asked her why she's sold out to corporate donors and why she doesn't care about her voters. Of course there have been no responses from her.
I wonder if Arizona residents frustrated by her unanswered phones and messages are beginning to be moved to write letters to the editors of their local papers. She needs to be outed much more publicly for her despicable lack of accountability to her constituents. She duped everyone, including the press.
My aunt is very active - she says its futile. Sinema DGAF. Doesn't answer the phone.
Sounds about right C.J. It’s a big power jump from Triathlons to Congress.
Dear Not Like Other Girls, What is it that's difficult about relationships? Has it always been this way? If I were to sprinkle special medicine to make it all well for you just as you would have liked a relationship to be, what would that look like? Have you thought about it? What is that all about? Do you not feel sexual desire, ever? Is it more mechanical for you? Have you had an orgasm with a man? Usually, one hangs around, or lets the man hang around to do a two fer to fill that lingering satisfying desire? So somewhere something seems missing from the picture. You need to find the key and unlock what you may be afraid of. Idk, but it's worth thinking about. It also seems like men aren't meeting you expectations or fulfilling their potential for you? Write down what you want. What excites you? Anything? Think about it all. You sound like a true beauty, what would make you happy and if you know that, start there... With love and best wishes, winners take all, so go get em.
I like your idea suggesting Ms. Not write down WHAT SHE WANTS, Lucy Socha! Very smart!
Thank you, E. Jean! Sometimes it's the very thing that we forget putting on our grocery list that we may need the most.
Lucy Socha! Ms. Not responded. See above!
This self-proclaimed weirdo’s letter, coupled with E. Jean’s interview with Abby Disney, and Patrice’s girl posse has me pondering the question at the heart of Auntie E’s last book, “What do we need men for?”
I mean seriously. No offense decent men, but good ones like yourselves are not “needed” (a word that implies lack) but are to be appreciated and cherished for being exceptions to the Cult of Dickweed.
My main question after reading - and hearing E. Jean claim she has faulty eyesight and can’t read (liar liar pants on fire) - Ms. Not’s letter is, “What do you feel is missing from your life if, as you say, you have a full social life, enjoy your work, and have not YET felt attracted to any men? Are you lonely? Are you craving intimacy or validation? Do you want children? Are you concerned there is something wrong with you?”
I am trying to understand why it is important to you to feel attracted to and involved with a man. Being coupled is not a sign of normalcy. Neither is “falling” in love (which often means feeling “lovesick”) or any of the other idiotic things women are told are normal such as worrying about breast size, clothing, hair, weight, muscle tone, and good god the smell of our vaginas. It’s all nonsense designed to make you doubt your self-worth and distract you from your real path and purpose - discovering and celebrating your uniqueness (i.e.weirdness).
That said, if you really would like to explore the whole male-female thing (which is quite normal and not at all weird), you may need to do some research to prime the pump. Frequenting different social circles is a good start. E. Jean’s suggestion that you spend time at sporting events isn’t bad (though I question the wisdom of rushing into men’s restrooms), but I would also recommend literary and music circles. Look for people who enjoy the things you enjoy. What are your hobbies and interests outside work, btw? For example, I like spending time with equine therapists, poets, and naturalists. Finally, may I suggest some daily journaling with writing prompts? I can recommend, “The Onward Workbook,” by Elena Aguilar, but there are literally hundreds of good ones. Ask your therapist for suggestions too.
Mostly I want you to know that “not being like other girls” does NOT make you unlovable. It makes you wonderfully and delightfully you. And, since there is only one you, it would be a crime to try to hide, change, or compare yourself to others. Trust me, your one-of-a-kind self is a gift. Please keep us posted on how things go. Hugs!
Jena, I am looking forward to how Ms. Not answers your question!
I know how I would have answered it when I was 30.
Jena! Ms. Not has responded. See above!
Wait, though! Wait! The parts that really jumped out at me were, “ALWAYS had trouble dating” and “see thousands of men and only find one or two attractive”. Fine Fox, have you considered you might be Asexual or Aromantic? This is a REAL, not often discussed, little-researched, yet completely valid and shameless ‘condition’; there are a million variants of it, it can be lifelong or phases, but it’s a perfectly natural, NOT as uncommon as you’d think, state. It has no reflection on your desirability, your capacity for tenderness or companionship, your personality, your worth or value… it’s (okay I am NOT an expert, this is just from my own limited research/discussions) just a response to sexuality that falls outside the heteronormative. WE DON’T ALL NEED TO HOOK UP!!! There is mind-boggling societal pressure to do so, but it’s not, in fact, a Rule, AT ALL.
Daria! Hail! I love that you IMMEDIATELY REPLIED. I too wondered, but Miss Not, herself says she considered it, but she does not think she is on the Aromantic "spectrum." Instead she yearns for a romantic love.
Sorry… I read more closely and saw you did consider that… but I want to super-clarify that asexual and aromantic are NOT the same thing! MANY asexual people (and I think that’s kind of an awful term, there should be a better one) have DEEP desires for romance and companionship.
There is a good, easily digestible article at michianaglbtcenter.org
Daria! Thank you! Perhaps Ms. Not, whom I KNOW will be reading this excellent advice, will let us know if she has explored that possibility.
I don’t know why I’m so jazzed up about this!!!!! The whole notion about sexual attraction as a necessary component has NOT BEEN AROUND FOREVER!! I just find it so fascinating. The ancient Greeks had, like, half a dozen different specific types of Love Relationships. Sexual desire/attraction before marriage wasn’t even A THING for like, a thousand years! Then there was courtly love, which was awesome, but chaste…. It’s all just a fascinating, fascinating are to study!!! Again… No Expert… but I’d be SO interested to try to learn how much the constant push towards sexual attracting people… ties directly into commerce, advertising. How to dress/do makeup/smell/ do your hair/ where to go/ what to buy, so you can Get That Man/Woman!!
It IS fascinating. Human beings are complex and I hate the way we are trained to think in boxes and compare ourselves to one another. Differences are to be celebrated and might just save us from extinction.
ABSOLUTELY…USUALLY. But NOT for everyone!!
You just made me think of the excellent High Maintenance episode (SE4,02) "Trick" written by Isaac Oliver which artfully explores asexuality and aromantic relationships....and weirdness! A must see.
Shel, Ms. Not has responded. See above!
Shel! Such a great recommendation! Thank you!
You're correct Daria. Thanks for brining it up. I've seen people troubled with it.
Daria! Ms. Not responded! See above!
Ms. Not appears to be sabotaging herself. There are tons of great suggestions about putting herself into situations where she is likely to meet other people who have life experiences that give them a more nuanced vision of what is attractive in other people. However, I think Ms. Not doesn’t think she’s attractive or interesting or deserving of romantic attention and those self-sabotaging feelings do get telegraphed. Even (or especially?) on Tinder.
This feels like an internal work thing. Being weird is awesome. Being beautiful might get you a shared glance or a smile but having a personality gets you much farther. Living a life you find fulfilling and makes you want to get out of bed in the morning so you get to do what you love? That’s intoxicating for other people. We all want to bask in that glow (assuming what you love isn’t somehow disgusting or illegal) (and I’m sure even if what someone loves to do is disgusting and/or illegal there are probably other people who would get into it too).
I’m wondering what the therapist has to say.
Yes, Eliza! "Being weird is awesome." As you say, Ms. Not should just USE it.
Eliza! Ms. Not responded. See above!
Another idea in addition to the brilliant suggestions already submitted…volunteer work. Whether it’s Habitat for Humanity, river/lake/seashore conservation, your local animal shelter, food pantry, park and/or trail maintenance/repair, birding, Sierra Club, political campaign…no matter what the cause, you will meet people who are investing time and energy in making a difference, no matter how big or small. Committed, interesting people. And let these people know that you are single and looking and would appreciate “referrals”. You will be increasing your odds of turning up cool candidates AND doing good at the same time. This is the voice of experience…my husband and I met in our late 30s at a Landmark Education seminar and have been together for 25 years. And we still volunteer. Sometimes taking the focus off yourself and putting it on others opens up a different set of possibilities. Good luck!
Volunteer work! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Susan!
and
Yes! Yes! Yes, some more!
This works. It's how I met my husband also...I was a volunteer on a real estate board in Boston years ago, and one of the other participants (my friend had a roommate) whom I ended up marrying.
Oh! This is wonderful, Prom!
Love it!
P.S.: Every one of these newsletters is more lit than the last! And I'm so happy Mary Trump has made you do the podcast portion: it's great hearing your voice married to your voice on the page. The full E. Jean experience.
Carrie! Goodness! That makes me so happy to hear! Thank you!
What Carrie said. I like to tease you, but it is a delight to hear your voice as It feels like you and Guff are plopping down on my couch to have some wine and a chat. Hugs!
I have three pieces of advice:
1) Get a dog. They are automatic conversation starters and good companions
2) Take up skeet shooting or aviation.
Both are full of men, and fun
3) Be patient
Prom Queen!
I am happy to hear you 2nd'd Skeet Shooting!
THIS IS THE KILLER APP!
My dad was a champion skeet shooter..so I know
Prom! Ms. Not responded! See above!