Listen now | Dear E. Jean: I have read enough of your columns now to know that good men are out there and they often come when you are not necessarily looking or searching. However, dating has always been difficult for me. I am 30, and I realize that I do not believe I will ever find love; and what's worse, I don't think I deserve it.
CONFLABBIANS!! You're gonna love Ms.Not Like Other Girls even more when you read her response to your wonderful advice:
Dear E. Jean,
First of all, thank you for making me blush AND laugh! Its been a while since I genuinely laughed about something that mostly makes me feel rotten inside, so hats off to you! I never considered myself an Ava Gardner, but its true I used to dress like a secretary from a 1950s B-movie, and that seems close enough.
Ive been thinking about my letter to you ever since I sent it. I think the Conflab correctly identified that I need to think more strategically about how many men I am meeting and where. I realized this... I don't see men as potential friends when I meet them, but always as potential life partners first. That puts way too much pressure on me and often sets me up for disappointment. And it's practically objectifying on some level, right? (Kind of like when men see me only as a sexual object, for example.)
And so I think I am due some re-strategizing... and stop seeing men either as princes on horses or total assholes only, but you know, maybe as human beings, with all faults and upbringing of patriarchy. You and several commenters correctly identified that perhaps the first issue to work on, however, is the irrational belief that I do not deserve love and am not worthy of it. When I was writing my letter to you, and realized it, it broke my heart. I don't want to spend my life alone but now I understand that if that happens for whatever reason, at least the relationship I have with myself should be healthy and fulfilling. I don't know where to start with accepting my weirdness and knowing that I am worthy of love after three decades of not doing that. But I have friends, therapy and myself to help me on my way, I suppose.
Many thanks to the Conflab too, I am honestly humbled by the time and effort the community put into answers and sharing their stories. I have a lot to reflect on in the coming weeks and so many suggestions to refer back to. Please give them my thanks if you can.
Lastly, I loved your voice delivery, and I hope this is a permanent feature now!
Dear Not Like Other Girls: Actually, you ARE like the select few of other girls; you are smart, gorgeous and analytical. You know what you want and who you are in a world where most people don't. Your narrative is not the first I've seen that expresses such dismay and probably won't be the last. Right now, in my girl posse, I have about 15 gorgeous women who are in their mid-30s to mid-40s who have never been married and are wondering the same things you are. My BFF is in her 50s and has never been married. She looks like a more refined version of Halle Berry. My other BFF, is sexy AF. She has the most stunning skin, is willowy, tall, breath-stopping gorgeous and has a sense of style that is dynamite. Actually, she can't keep men away from her. But she says they suck as do the others. They can't have a decent conversation, they dress terribly, their hygiene is questionable and it's obvious they only want one thing from her but could never even do that very well. My girl posse says that men don't woo women anymore. And many of them know zilch about sex but what they've seen in porn. There are too many things, on social media, that men think they should have from women, without bringing anything to the table, e.g. submission from a woman but the man has nothing. The stories I've heard have made me believe that if my husband predeceases me, I will never get married again nor will I probably date. My mom was widowed youngish, at 65. She has had a lot of men, in her age group, try it. But she says the same. They suck. She is well off so men are looking for a "nurse and a purse". She's now 85 and says it's not generational because the old codgers who try to get with her suck too. Most of the women, in my girl posse, haven't been "with" a man, sexually, in years. They say it's just not worth it and all of them are modern enough to have toys to take care of things.
These women are bosses. They are very successful entrepreneurs, hellcats in pretty decent metal bands, high level managers... they all make an eff-ton of money and live quite well, travel and have the most beautiful sanctuaries (their homes). But they all say the same thing. The men just aren't worthy and seem like they really don't want to be. So they live their best lives possible and have planned to have a high-class "Golden Girls" situation when they reach a certain age. I don't blame them.
Basically, I don't know what to tell you. I think we may have reached the Dark Ages of relationships. Remember how we were taught, in Biology, that women always sought out the best of the gene pool to hook up with/get married to so their progeny would be the best, genetically? And men supposedly "competed" to be that choice? Mm, hm. Look at where we are now. Do we really have that dynamic? Did we ever? I can only say that you must live your best life, without men, and live it well. Truth to tell, I was just like you, when I turned 30. I told my mom that my Mr. Right was probably some Soviet dude who was wondering if his Ms. Right was an American girl and never the two should meet. I didn't get married until I was 35. He showed up when I least expected it. Cliché, I know, but this is why these aphorisms ARE cliché, because they are often true. And really, if we had the answers to this question, we'd he rich AF. I can't tell you to "do something" like change your lipstick or wear pink or drench yourself in some pheromone-inducing perfume. If that shit worked, there would be no Dr. Phil, no self-help books, no E-Harmony... it would all just work and everyone would be booed up with their gender of choice. Whatever you're looking for, I hope you find it. But remember this... only you can make you happy. Don't depend on someone else to do it. Blessings!
Hmmm...I was struck by the line "I have an active social life and have worked in a bunch of environments in my twenties and yet, I never see men around me I find attractive (not even physically)."
Okay. So where ARE you seeing men you find attractive?
If the answer is "bah, nowhere, there are no such creatures", then the question becomes "are there *women* you find attractive? And where are you seeing them?" And we go from there.
If the answer is "I'm seeing men I'm attracted to in places where I'm not active socially, or in work environments other than mine", then we can look at ways to GET you to those places by changing your social patterns. E. Jean has suggested a number of sporting events, but if sporting events aren't your scene -- and if you're really not interested in guys who base their lives around sports -- there are also libraries, writing groups, book clubs, LARP events, art classes, philosophy lectures, museum events, sailing lessons, charity fundraisers, comic cons, engine repair lessons .... the list goes on.
If the answer is "only in the movies", then you need to talk to your therapist about the unrealistic expectations a two-hour movie can set up in terms of lifelong romantic scenarios.
Oh, and Tinder is really NOT the way to meet up with the person you're looking for. There are far more effective on-line services...E. Jean has mentioned some of them!
ALSO -- weird is good. I know nobody in a successful relationship who DOESN'T think their partner is a little weird...in a good way. I mean, *nobody* says, "I was attracted to her utter lack of personality quirks", or "I chose the love of my life because they are crushingly average, and they possess no distinctive individuality at all."
Embrace your weirdness ... it's what makes you attractive!
Whenever I hear a woman say she doesn't want to be like other girls, it breaks my little old hippie-chick feminist heart. What do you think is so wrong with other girls that you have to distance yourself from them? And what other girls? Are you thinking that all other girls are like the Kardashians? Or like the Real Housewives? Or sitcom girls -- who are, btw, mostly written by men? What caused this dislike of other girls?
Because here's the thing. If you have no female friends, you aren't ready for men.
Friendship with other women -- good, solid, healthy friendships -- will grow your butt up better than any other relationships you will ever have. True friendship with other women requires Olympic-caliber honesty, self-awareness, kindness, empathy, humor, generosity and strong boundaries.
All of which come in damn handy when dealing with any romantic/sexual relationship.
I mean this with all of the kindness, etc. I have, but I think the reason you cannot find a man to be attracted to is that you have no idea of who you are. Because no one who knows herself fearlessly and honestly right down to her mitichlorians feels that she does not deserve love.
The fact that you are in therapy is good, but my advice is to forget about men for a little while and get you some girlfriends, too. They will help you figure out who you are, and once you know that, you'll have a better idea of what your deal-breakers are in a relationship. Without knowing those, you're more likely to end up in a ho-hum, settled-too-soon relationship than a happily ever after partnership.
I have been married twice, but I did not meet the love of my life until I had been completely and happily alone for eight years, when I was 52. He is 10 years younger than me. I was refusing to even consider giving him a chance, but my girlfriends straightened me all the way out and here we are more than 10 years later. He is more than worth all of the hard work I had to do to figure out who I am, what I can bring to a relationship and what I require in return.
Once you do that work, I guarantee that you will start attracting -- and maybe, hopefully, being attracted to -- a man who is worthy of the woman you are on your way to being.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you so much luck, fun and adventure. And love. <3
I'm going to go out on a "call me a misandrist" limb, but maybe NLOG, you're just too smart for this shit? I mean, I had a single "long" term relationship after college, which lasted all of 13 months. Then at 27, I met my future husband. By 30 I was married, and by 40 I was headed for a long-overdue divorce with two young kids in tow. I dated a bit here and there after my divorce, took a lover for a bit (really just for sex. We were never dating.). Then I ended up in a nearly four-year relationship with a guy who moved into my house with his two kids while it turns out, he was pursuing other women online the entire time. He left me in the spring for his "soulmate" [feel free to insert vomit sounds here].
There ARE good men out there. My lover was a good one, and still is, but not the right one for me. It's possible I recently met a good one that is right for me, but the jury's still out on that one. I'm nearly 50. That's right, two possibly good ones in thirty years of being out there.
Not to be a downer, but patriarchy makes most men self-absorbed at best, dangerous and narcissistic at worst. Also, emotionally stunted and defensive about it. Maybe you're not finding men you're attracted to because there is some part of you that senses the relative futility of finding a man who is worthy of your obvious intelligence and delightful weirdness, who won't just be focused on your reportedly enviable good looks.
Maybe you're ultimately a sapiosexual, meaning you're highly attracted to people's minds and intelligence. If you've bought the culture's idea that you and all your potential mates should be seeking each other out based on looks, then no wonder you're not "attracted to them". You aren't looking for the right thing. *You're* looking for someone as complex and interesting as yourself, and that is a tall order if you're shopping for a cis-man. Not impossible, but I can tell you for sure that I hadn't met a single man by 30, including the man I married, who was as interesting, emotionally intelligent, and smart as I am. Clearly, neither have you.
I don't think your quest to find a partner, if that is truly what you want, is doomed. I just think that for a woman who actually wants a man to match her for looks, smarts, and delicious weirdness the quest may be a long one, and that's okay. I wouldn't trade my kids. They're great. But I wish I hadn't had to go through so many shitty men to end up at nearly 50, happily living in my own house with them and nobody the hell else.
Give yourself a break. Maybe think about pursuing older men, who've been around long enough to get some humility and wisdom under their belts? Maybe stop looking in bars and at events, which tend to be shallow and superficial spaces, and seek out a spiritual community so you might meet men who care about deeper things than just your looks? Maybe sign up for some classes on subjects that are really interesting to *you* and see who else is similarly interested? Maybe start looking for men who are interesting to you as people, and the physical attraction might sneak in the door when you're not looking?
I think you're doing great (though I am sorry about the abuse and assault, because that's heinous). And I don't think you're taking too long. I suspect you just haven't taken quite long enough to think about what piques your interest and really turns your crank. You're just following the usual script for women and you're, as you say, not like other girls. You want more and better than most of us settle for, as well you should.
I know Patrice and Jena and Asha are not dreaming; I’ve heard this from women, that finding good men is difficult, but all my friends who are married are married to gems, and I have lived with two (not right for me, but still) and worked for and collaborated with so many more that I know they’re out there.
I read this guy on Twitter speculating that because men were taught for so many thousands of years that all they had to do to appeal to women was to offer the promise of financial security and now what? A life’s training in ashes. Now that so many women can provide financial security for themselves, and solvency's just a baseline for prospective partners, not keeping up with current modes of seduction have those men looking like deer caught in the headlights.
My sense is that men who didn't seen this train coming — whose *conversation* is just and only how financially secure they are (even if it’s not strictly on offer) — are striking out, and some are livid that they were promised something all their lives where the premise is no longer true (and blame it on women, instead of a patriarchal system that is no longer sustainable). A lot of men have been slow to step up, to embrace the suck of having all their early training reversed so rudely, to bring something more to the table, as the Twitter guy also said.
It's hard to read the tsunami of recent legislation in furtherance of controlling women's bodies, down to the efforts toward contraception prohibition, as anything other than an unmistakable effort to block women’s financial independence. Beats changing the pitch. There seems another shift coming: anyone else think a quasi-Lysistrata — or at least, a more stringent vetting of partners for ethics — is on its way, given that recent legislation is apparently intent on decimating the financial lives of millions of people who become pregnant, many of whom will likely end up single parents unable to cobble together childcare to allow for completion of the education that will provide the living wage to allow for the costs of raising a child, which was $233,610 (per the FDA in 2020) from age 0 to 18, (add ~$80K to ~180K for four years of higher ed)? Once the inevitable DNA-to-paycheck link is made and the AI code to enforce it is written, it’ll also hobble men when child support and education is inescapable.
Exceptional women who know their worth are a threat to most men. How many couples have we met and wondered, "why does she put up with him?" It sounds like you're not one to settle. Companionship with an equal partner is an ideal that's difficult to find.
Evolutionary Psychology tells us that humans look for the best mate they can qualify for but patriarchy has taught men that they shouldn't have to try too hard, that they're supposed to be in charge. That creates bullies and lazy minds. Keeping women's wages low and access to legal rights difficult, makes it harder for women to fight the status quo. Times are changing quicker than most men can adapt to. Men have also evolved to resist partnering. So finding one who's evolved as much as women have is rare!
The question is, how do you find an exceptional man? I've never found one.
Have to add about the Sinema Conundrum. What the hell does she think she is playing at? My 2 cents is that she is addled by power, and the sound of her own name. How I loathe her. What a disappointment. Any Arizona readers here to chip in? My Tucson relatives say no one answers the phone at her offices, no matter how many times they call.
Dear Not Like Other Girls, What is it that's difficult about relationships? Has it always been this way? If I were to sprinkle special medicine to make it all well for you just as you would have liked a relationship to be, what would that look like? Have you thought about it? What is that all about? Do you not feel sexual desire, ever? Is it more mechanical for you? Have you had an orgasm with a man? Usually, one hangs around, or lets the man hang around to do a two fer to fill that lingering satisfying desire? So somewhere something seems missing from the picture. You need to find the key and unlock what you may be afraid of. Idk, but it's worth thinking about. It also seems like men aren't meeting you expectations or fulfilling their potential for you? Write down what you want. What excites you? Anything? Think about it all. You sound like a true beauty, what would make you happy and if you know that, start there... With love and best wishes, winners take all, so go get em.
This self-proclaimed weirdo’s letter, coupled with E. Jean’s interview with Abby Disney, and Patrice’s girl posse has me pondering the question at the heart of Auntie E’s last book, “What do we need men for?”
I mean seriously. No offense decent men, but good ones like yourselves are not “needed” (a word that implies lack) but are to be appreciated and cherished for being exceptions to the Cult of Dickweed.
My main question after reading - and hearing E. Jean claim she has faulty eyesight and can’t read (liar liar pants on fire) - Ms. Not’s letter is, “What do you feel is missing from your life if, as you say, you have a full social life, enjoy your work, and have not YET felt attracted to any men? Are you lonely? Are you craving intimacy or validation? Do you want children? Are you concerned there is something wrong with you?”
I am trying to understand why it is important to you to feel attracted to and involved with a man. Being coupled is not a sign of normalcy. Neither is “falling” in love (which often means feeling “lovesick”) or any of the other idiotic things women are told are normal such as worrying about breast size, clothing, hair, weight, muscle tone, and good god the smell of our vaginas. It’s all nonsense designed to make you doubt your self-worth and distract you from your real path and purpose - discovering and celebrating your uniqueness (i.e.weirdness).
That said, if you really would like to explore the whole male-female thing (which is quite normal and not at all weird), you may need to do some research to prime the pump. Frequenting different social circles is a good start. E. Jean’s suggestion that you spend time at sporting events isn’t bad (though I question the wisdom of rushing into men’s restrooms), but I would also recommend literary and music circles. Look for people who enjoy the things you enjoy. What are your hobbies and interests outside work, btw? For example, I like spending time with equine therapists, poets, and naturalists. Finally, may I suggest some daily journaling with writing prompts? I can recommend, “The Onward Workbook,” by Elena Aguilar, but there are literally hundreds of good ones. Ask your therapist for suggestions too.
Mostly I want you to know that “not being like other girls” does NOT make you unlovable. It makes you wonderfully and delightfully you. And, since there is only one you, it would be a crime to try to hide, change, or compare yourself to others. Trust me, your one-of-a-kind self is a gift. Please keep us posted on how things go. Hugs!
Wait, though! Wait! The parts that really jumped out at me were, “ALWAYS had trouble dating” and “see thousands of men and only find one or two attractive”. Fine Fox, have you considered you might be Asexual or Aromantic? This is a REAL, not often discussed, little-researched, yet completely valid and shameless ‘condition’; there are a million variants of it, it can be lifelong or phases, but it’s a perfectly natural, NOT as uncommon as you’d think, state. It has no reflection on your desirability, your capacity for tenderness or companionship, your personality, your worth or value… it’s (okay I am NOT an expert, this is just from my own limited research/discussions) just a response to sexuality that falls outside the heteronormative. WE DON’T ALL NEED TO HOOK UP!!! There is mind-boggling societal pressure to do so, but it’s not, in fact, a Rule, AT ALL.
Ms. Not appears to be sabotaging herself. There are tons of great suggestions about putting herself into situations where she is likely to meet other people who have life experiences that give them a more nuanced vision of what is attractive in other people. However, I think Ms. Not doesn’t think she’s attractive or interesting or deserving of romantic attention and those self-sabotaging feelings do get telegraphed. Even (or especially?) on Tinder.
This feels like an internal work thing. Being weird is awesome. Being beautiful might get you a shared glance or a smile but having a personality gets you much farther. Living a life you find fulfilling and makes you want to get out of bed in the morning so you get to do what you love? That’s intoxicating for other people. We all want to bask in that glow (assuming what you love isn’t somehow disgusting or illegal) (and I’m sure even if what someone loves to do is disgusting and/or illegal there are probably other people who would get into it too).
Another idea in addition to the brilliant suggestions already submitted…volunteer work. Whether it’s Habitat for Humanity, river/lake/seashore conservation, your local animal shelter, food pantry, park and/or trail maintenance/repair, birding, Sierra Club, political campaign…no matter what the cause, you will meet people who are investing time and energy in making a difference, no matter how big or small. Committed, interesting people. And let these people know that you are single and looking and would appreciate “referrals”. You will be increasing your odds of turning up cool candidates AND doing good at the same time. This is the voice of experience…my husband and I met in our late 30s at a Landmark Education seminar and have been together for 25 years. And we still volunteer. Sometimes taking the focus off yourself and putting it on others opens up a different set of possibilities. Good luck!
P.S.: Every one of these newsletters is more lit than the last! And I'm so happy Mary Trump has made you do the podcast portion: it's great hearing your voice married to your voice on the page. The full E. Jean experience.
CONFLABBIANS!! You're gonna love Ms.Not Like Other Girls even more when you read her response to your wonderful advice:
Dear E. Jean,
First of all, thank you for making me blush AND laugh! Its been a while since I genuinely laughed about something that mostly makes me feel rotten inside, so hats off to you! I never considered myself an Ava Gardner, but its true I used to dress like a secretary from a 1950s B-movie, and that seems close enough.
Ive been thinking about my letter to you ever since I sent it. I think the Conflab correctly identified that I need to think more strategically about how many men I am meeting and where. I realized this... I don't see men as potential friends when I meet them, but always as potential life partners first. That puts way too much pressure on me and often sets me up for disappointment. And it's practically objectifying on some level, right? (Kind of like when men see me only as a sexual object, for example.)
And so I think I am due some re-strategizing... and stop seeing men either as princes on horses or total assholes only, but you know, maybe as human beings, with all faults and upbringing of patriarchy. You and several commenters correctly identified that perhaps the first issue to work on, however, is the irrational belief that I do not deserve love and am not worthy of it. When I was writing my letter to you, and realized it, it broke my heart. I don't want to spend my life alone but now I understand that if that happens for whatever reason, at least the relationship I have with myself should be healthy and fulfilling. I don't know where to start with accepting my weirdness and knowing that I am worthy of love after three decades of not doing that. But I have friends, therapy and myself to help me on my way, I suppose.
Many thanks to the Conflab too, I am honestly humbled by the time and effort the community put into answers and sharing their stories. I have a lot to reflect on in the coming weeks and so many suggestions to refer back to. Please give them my thanks if you can.
Lastly, I loved your voice delivery, and I hope this is a permanent feature now!
All my best,
Ms. YES
Dear Not Like Other Girls: Actually, you ARE like the select few of other girls; you are smart, gorgeous and analytical. You know what you want and who you are in a world where most people don't. Your narrative is not the first I've seen that expresses such dismay and probably won't be the last. Right now, in my girl posse, I have about 15 gorgeous women who are in their mid-30s to mid-40s who have never been married and are wondering the same things you are. My BFF is in her 50s and has never been married. She looks like a more refined version of Halle Berry. My other BFF, is sexy AF. She has the most stunning skin, is willowy, tall, breath-stopping gorgeous and has a sense of style that is dynamite. Actually, she can't keep men away from her. But she says they suck as do the others. They can't have a decent conversation, they dress terribly, their hygiene is questionable and it's obvious they only want one thing from her but could never even do that very well. My girl posse says that men don't woo women anymore. And many of them know zilch about sex but what they've seen in porn. There are too many things, on social media, that men think they should have from women, without bringing anything to the table, e.g. submission from a woman but the man has nothing. The stories I've heard have made me believe that if my husband predeceases me, I will never get married again nor will I probably date. My mom was widowed youngish, at 65. She has had a lot of men, in her age group, try it. But she says the same. They suck. She is well off so men are looking for a "nurse and a purse". She's now 85 and says it's not generational because the old codgers who try to get with her suck too. Most of the women, in my girl posse, haven't been "with" a man, sexually, in years. They say it's just not worth it and all of them are modern enough to have toys to take care of things.
These women are bosses. They are very successful entrepreneurs, hellcats in pretty decent metal bands, high level managers... they all make an eff-ton of money and live quite well, travel and have the most beautiful sanctuaries (their homes). But they all say the same thing. The men just aren't worthy and seem like they really don't want to be. So they live their best lives possible and have planned to have a high-class "Golden Girls" situation when they reach a certain age. I don't blame them.
Basically, I don't know what to tell you. I think we may have reached the Dark Ages of relationships. Remember how we were taught, in Biology, that women always sought out the best of the gene pool to hook up with/get married to so their progeny would be the best, genetically? And men supposedly "competed" to be that choice? Mm, hm. Look at where we are now. Do we really have that dynamic? Did we ever? I can only say that you must live your best life, without men, and live it well. Truth to tell, I was just like you, when I turned 30. I told my mom that my Mr. Right was probably some Soviet dude who was wondering if his Ms. Right was an American girl and never the two should meet. I didn't get married until I was 35. He showed up when I least expected it. Cliché, I know, but this is why these aphorisms ARE cliché, because they are often true. And really, if we had the answers to this question, we'd he rich AF. I can't tell you to "do something" like change your lipstick or wear pink or drench yourself in some pheromone-inducing perfume. If that shit worked, there would be no Dr. Phil, no self-help books, no E-Harmony... it would all just work and everyone would be booed up with their gender of choice. Whatever you're looking for, I hope you find it. But remember this... only you can make you happy. Don't depend on someone else to do it. Blessings!
Hmmm...I was struck by the line "I have an active social life and have worked in a bunch of environments in my twenties and yet, I never see men around me I find attractive (not even physically)."
Okay. So where ARE you seeing men you find attractive?
If the answer is "bah, nowhere, there are no such creatures", then the question becomes "are there *women* you find attractive? And where are you seeing them?" And we go from there.
If the answer is "I'm seeing men I'm attracted to in places where I'm not active socially, or in work environments other than mine", then we can look at ways to GET you to those places by changing your social patterns. E. Jean has suggested a number of sporting events, but if sporting events aren't your scene -- and if you're really not interested in guys who base their lives around sports -- there are also libraries, writing groups, book clubs, LARP events, art classes, philosophy lectures, museum events, sailing lessons, charity fundraisers, comic cons, engine repair lessons .... the list goes on.
If the answer is "only in the movies", then you need to talk to your therapist about the unrealistic expectations a two-hour movie can set up in terms of lifelong romantic scenarios.
Oh, and Tinder is really NOT the way to meet up with the person you're looking for. There are far more effective on-line services...E. Jean has mentioned some of them!
ALSO -- weird is good. I know nobody in a successful relationship who DOESN'T think their partner is a little weird...in a good way. I mean, *nobody* says, "I was attracted to her utter lack of personality quirks", or "I chose the love of my life because they are crushingly average, and they possess no distinctive individuality at all."
Embrace your weirdness ... it's what makes you attractive!
Whenever I hear a woman say she doesn't want to be like other girls, it breaks my little old hippie-chick feminist heart. What do you think is so wrong with other girls that you have to distance yourself from them? And what other girls? Are you thinking that all other girls are like the Kardashians? Or like the Real Housewives? Or sitcom girls -- who are, btw, mostly written by men? What caused this dislike of other girls?
Because here's the thing. If you have no female friends, you aren't ready for men.
Friendship with other women -- good, solid, healthy friendships -- will grow your butt up better than any other relationships you will ever have. True friendship with other women requires Olympic-caliber honesty, self-awareness, kindness, empathy, humor, generosity and strong boundaries.
All of which come in damn handy when dealing with any romantic/sexual relationship.
I mean this with all of the kindness, etc. I have, but I think the reason you cannot find a man to be attracted to is that you have no idea of who you are. Because no one who knows herself fearlessly and honestly right down to her mitichlorians feels that she does not deserve love.
The fact that you are in therapy is good, but my advice is to forget about men for a little while and get you some girlfriends, too. They will help you figure out who you are, and once you know that, you'll have a better idea of what your deal-breakers are in a relationship. Without knowing those, you're more likely to end up in a ho-hum, settled-too-soon relationship than a happily ever after partnership.
I have been married twice, but I did not meet the love of my life until I had been completely and happily alone for eight years, when I was 52. He is 10 years younger than me. I was refusing to even consider giving him a chance, but my girlfriends straightened me all the way out and here we are more than 10 years later. He is more than worth all of the hard work I had to do to figure out who I am, what I can bring to a relationship and what I require in return.
Once you do that work, I guarantee that you will start attracting -- and maybe, hopefully, being attracted to -- a man who is worthy of the woman you are on your way to being.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you so much luck, fun and adventure. And love. <3
I'm going to go out on a "call me a misandrist" limb, but maybe NLOG, you're just too smart for this shit? I mean, I had a single "long" term relationship after college, which lasted all of 13 months. Then at 27, I met my future husband. By 30 I was married, and by 40 I was headed for a long-overdue divorce with two young kids in tow. I dated a bit here and there after my divorce, took a lover for a bit (really just for sex. We were never dating.). Then I ended up in a nearly four-year relationship with a guy who moved into my house with his two kids while it turns out, he was pursuing other women online the entire time. He left me in the spring for his "soulmate" [feel free to insert vomit sounds here].
There ARE good men out there. My lover was a good one, and still is, but not the right one for me. It's possible I recently met a good one that is right for me, but the jury's still out on that one. I'm nearly 50. That's right, two possibly good ones in thirty years of being out there.
Not to be a downer, but patriarchy makes most men self-absorbed at best, dangerous and narcissistic at worst. Also, emotionally stunted and defensive about it. Maybe you're not finding men you're attracted to because there is some part of you that senses the relative futility of finding a man who is worthy of your obvious intelligence and delightful weirdness, who won't just be focused on your reportedly enviable good looks.
Maybe you're ultimately a sapiosexual, meaning you're highly attracted to people's minds and intelligence. If you've bought the culture's idea that you and all your potential mates should be seeking each other out based on looks, then no wonder you're not "attracted to them". You aren't looking for the right thing. *You're* looking for someone as complex and interesting as yourself, and that is a tall order if you're shopping for a cis-man. Not impossible, but I can tell you for sure that I hadn't met a single man by 30, including the man I married, who was as interesting, emotionally intelligent, and smart as I am. Clearly, neither have you.
I don't think your quest to find a partner, if that is truly what you want, is doomed. I just think that for a woman who actually wants a man to match her for looks, smarts, and delicious weirdness the quest may be a long one, and that's okay. I wouldn't trade my kids. They're great. But I wish I hadn't had to go through so many shitty men to end up at nearly 50, happily living in my own house with them and nobody the hell else.
Give yourself a break. Maybe think about pursuing older men, who've been around long enough to get some humility and wisdom under their belts? Maybe stop looking in bars and at events, which tend to be shallow and superficial spaces, and seek out a spiritual community so you might meet men who care about deeper things than just your looks? Maybe sign up for some classes on subjects that are really interesting to *you* and see who else is similarly interested? Maybe start looking for men who are interesting to you as people, and the physical attraction might sneak in the door when you're not looking?
I think you're doing great (though I am sorry about the abuse and assault, because that's heinous). And I don't think you're taking too long. I suspect you just haven't taken quite long enough to think about what piques your interest and really turns your crank. You're just following the usual script for women and you're, as you say, not like other girls. You want more and better than most of us settle for, as well you should.
I know Patrice and Jena and Asha are not dreaming; I’ve heard this from women, that finding good men is difficult, but all my friends who are married are married to gems, and I have lived with two (not right for me, but still) and worked for and collaborated with so many more that I know they’re out there.
I read this guy on Twitter speculating that because men were taught for so many thousands of years that all they had to do to appeal to women was to offer the promise of financial security and now what? A life’s training in ashes. Now that so many women can provide financial security for themselves, and solvency's just a baseline for prospective partners, not keeping up with current modes of seduction have those men looking like deer caught in the headlights.
My sense is that men who didn't seen this train coming — whose *conversation* is just and only how financially secure they are (even if it’s not strictly on offer) — are striking out, and some are livid that they were promised something all their lives where the premise is no longer true (and blame it on women, instead of a patriarchal system that is no longer sustainable). A lot of men have been slow to step up, to embrace the suck of having all their early training reversed so rudely, to bring something more to the table, as the Twitter guy also said.
It's hard to read the tsunami of recent legislation in furtherance of controlling women's bodies, down to the efforts toward contraception prohibition, as anything other than an unmistakable effort to block women’s financial independence. Beats changing the pitch. There seems another shift coming: anyone else think a quasi-Lysistrata — or at least, a more stringent vetting of partners for ethics — is on its way, given that recent legislation is apparently intent on decimating the financial lives of millions of people who become pregnant, many of whom will likely end up single parents unable to cobble together childcare to allow for completion of the education that will provide the living wage to allow for the costs of raising a child, which was $233,610 (per the FDA in 2020) from age 0 to 18, (add ~$80K to ~180K for four years of higher ed)? Once the inevitable DNA-to-paycheck link is made and the AI code to enforce it is written, it’ll also hobble men when child support and education is inescapable.
Wheels within wheels, eh?
Exceptional women who know their worth are a threat to most men. How many couples have we met and wondered, "why does she put up with him?" It sounds like you're not one to settle. Companionship with an equal partner is an ideal that's difficult to find.
Evolutionary Psychology tells us that humans look for the best mate they can qualify for but patriarchy has taught men that they shouldn't have to try too hard, that they're supposed to be in charge. That creates bullies and lazy minds. Keeping women's wages low and access to legal rights difficult, makes it harder for women to fight the status quo. Times are changing quicker than most men can adapt to. Men have also evolved to resist partnering. So finding one who's evolved as much as women have is rare!
The question is, how do you find an exceptional man? I've never found one.
Who wants to be like other girls 🤪
Have to add about the Sinema Conundrum. What the hell does she think she is playing at? My 2 cents is that she is addled by power, and the sound of her own name. How I loathe her. What a disappointment. Any Arizona readers here to chip in? My Tucson relatives say no one answers the phone at her offices, no matter how many times they call.
Dear Not Like Other Girls, What is it that's difficult about relationships? Has it always been this way? If I were to sprinkle special medicine to make it all well for you just as you would have liked a relationship to be, what would that look like? Have you thought about it? What is that all about? Do you not feel sexual desire, ever? Is it more mechanical for you? Have you had an orgasm with a man? Usually, one hangs around, or lets the man hang around to do a two fer to fill that lingering satisfying desire? So somewhere something seems missing from the picture. You need to find the key and unlock what you may be afraid of. Idk, but it's worth thinking about. It also seems like men aren't meeting you expectations or fulfilling their potential for you? Write down what you want. What excites you? Anything? Think about it all. You sound like a true beauty, what would make you happy and if you know that, start there... With love and best wishes, winners take all, so go get em.
This self-proclaimed weirdo’s letter, coupled with E. Jean’s interview with Abby Disney, and Patrice’s girl posse has me pondering the question at the heart of Auntie E’s last book, “What do we need men for?”
I mean seriously. No offense decent men, but good ones like yourselves are not “needed” (a word that implies lack) but are to be appreciated and cherished for being exceptions to the Cult of Dickweed.
My main question after reading - and hearing E. Jean claim she has faulty eyesight and can’t read (liar liar pants on fire) - Ms. Not’s letter is, “What do you feel is missing from your life if, as you say, you have a full social life, enjoy your work, and have not YET felt attracted to any men? Are you lonely? Are you craving intimacy or validation? Do you want children? Are you concerned there is something wrong with you?”
I am trying to understand why it is important to you to feel attracted to and involved with a man. Being coupled is not a sign of normalcy. Neither is “falling” in love (which often means feeling “lovesick”) or any of the other idiotic things women are told are normal such as worrying about breast size, clothing, hair, weight, muscle tone, and good god the smell of our vaginas. It’s all nonsense designed to make you doubt your self-worth and distract you from your real path and purpose - discovering and celebrating your uniqueness (i.e.weirdness).
That said, if you really would like to explore the whole male-female thing (which is quite normal and not at all weird), you may need to do some research to prime the pump. Frequenting different social circles is a good start. E. Jean’s suggestion that you spend time at sporting events isn’t bad (though I question the wisdom of rushing into men’s restrooms), but I would also recommend literary and music circles. Look for people who enjoy the things you enjoy. What are your hobbies and interests outside work, btw? For example, I like spending time with equine therapists, poets, and naturalists. Finally, may I suggest some daily journaling with writing prompts? I can recommend, “The Onward Workbook,” by Elena Aguilar, but there are literally hundreds of good ones. Ask your therapist for suggestions too.
Mostly I want you to know that “not being like other girls” does NOT make you unlovable. It makes you wonderfully and delightfully you. And, since there is only one you, it would be a crime to try to hide, change, or compare yourself to others. Trust me, your one-of-a-kind self is a gift. Please keep us posted on how things go. Hugs!
Wait, though! Wait! The parts that really jumped out at me were, “ALWAYS had trouble dating” and “see thousands of men and only find one or two attractive”. Fine Fox, have you considered you might be Asexual or Aromantic? This is a REAL, not often discussed, little-researched, yet completely valid and shameless ‘condition’; there are a million variants of it, it can be lifelong or phases, but it’s a perfectly natural, NOT as uncommon as you’d think, state. It has no reflection on your desirability, your capacity for tenderness or companionship, your personality, your worth or value… it’s (okay I am NOT an expert, this is just from my own limited research/discussions) just a response to sexuality that falls outside the heteronormative. WE DON’T ALL NEED TO HOOK UP!!! There is mind-boggling societal pressure to do so, but it’s not, in fact, a Rule, AT ALL.
Ms. Not appears to be sabotaging herself. There are tons of great suggestions about putting herself into situations where she is likely to meet other people who have life experiences that give them a more nuanced vision of what is attractive in other people. However, I think Ms. Not doesn’t think she’s attractive or interesting or deserving of romantic attention and those self-sabotaging feelings do get telegraphed. Even (or especially?) on Tinder.
This feels like an internal work thing. Being weird is awesome. Being beautiful might get you a shared glance or a smile but having a personality gets you much farther. Living a life you find fulfilling and makes you want to get out of bed in the morning so you get to do what you love? That’s intoxicating for other people. We all want to bask in that glow (assuming what you love isn’t somehow disgusting or illegal) (and I’m sure even if what someone loves to do is disgusting and/or illegal there are probably other people who would get into it too).
I’m wondering what the therapist has to say.
Another idea in addition to the brilliant suggestions already submitted…volunteer work. Whether it’s Habitat for Humanity, river/lake/seashore conservation, your local animal shelter, food pantry, park and/or trail maintenance/repair, birding, Sierra Club, political campaign…no matter what the cause, you will meet people who are investing time and energy in making a difference, no matter how big or small. Committed, interesting people. And let these people know that you are single and looking and would appreciate “referrals”. You will be increasing your odds of turning up cool candidates AND doing good at the same time. This is the voice of experience…my husband and I met in our late 30s at a Landmark Education seminar and have been together for 25 years. And we still volunteer. Sometimes taking the focus off yourself and putting it on others opens up a different set of possibilities. Good luck!
P.S.: Every one of these newsletters is more lit than the last! And I'm so happy Mary Trump has made you do the podcast portion: it's great hearing your voice married to your voice on the page. The full E. Jean experience.
I have three pieces of advice:
1) Get a dog. They are automatic conversation starters and good companions
2) Take up skeet shooting or aviation.
Both are full of men, and fun
3) Be patient