Listen now | Once Upon a Time . . . ...there was a TV show called Ask E. Jean. It was a daily frolic that Entertainment Weekly called “America’s Answering Machine.” Every afternoon at 4pm, dear Reader, you could tune in and watch a 50-year old woman in a short Donna Karen skirt jumping up and down on a sofa and yelling at her guests till they agreed to follow her advice. It was so mad, so
I would have given the same advice in the '90s that I would give now.
Grow up.
Lying to someone who loves you is a trash move. This woman agreed to a certain set of rules in her relationship with her husband. She doesn't get to change them without his agreement.
Women are all about consent until they decide to cheat. Where is her husband's consent to having another man in his marriage?
Choose one or the other, or be an adult and tell both men your truth.
I just watched that Bill Boggs show and for the life of me I can’t understand why you are not a movie star (…who writes an advice column). In fact I’m so distracted by your charisma I can’t even remember what the poor reader was asking about. I think you should be video-ing your Substacks, not just reading and writing them.
VAL! Come on over woman and we will try out that video idea by videoing one of your How Not To F*ck Up Your Face's https://valeriemonroe.substack.com/ questions while we are hiking the Appalachian trail!
I’d love an update on her life. I went through something similar but it lasted for a VERY long time. I’m not ashamed of it and I wouldn’t change a thing. My view is that if you are lucky enough to have that intense passion, hold onto it quietly. This takes a lot of mental gymnastics and understanding what you’ve signed up for (as in, you’re not marrying the guy). It takes a certain amount of maturity and mutual agreement to carry on with a lover, but we only get one twirl around this earth so make it an excellent one.
I wouldn’t have told her to end it, but I would’ve definitely pointed out that she needs to get a grip on her life and be realistic about what’s possible. Affairs often feel like a bubble. They’re above the static of every day life. She’d need to compartmentalize her relationship with the other instead of creating drama about it. I would’ve also said that the kids need to come first.
What I do understand is that some women may feel like they need to be seen as sexy and seductive rather than just a wife and mother. And sometimes that may lead a woman outside of her marriage. They shouldn’t be judged for this.
Kathleen, batten down your hat and fasten your chin strap, woman! You are about to encounter contradictions:
I maintain that when you are an honest person, morally strong, and follow your own compass, that when you fall in love and are thrilled to the core, it is your duty NOT to follow convention.
Many in the Conflab will not agree.
Your happiness proves that it worked for you. Thank you for your story.
I am the absolute last person to give a flying fig about "convention" and do not believe that monogamy is only way to be in love, but I do see some cognitive dissonance in believing that one is honest and morally strong while lying to another human being on the daily. YMMV, of course.
Yes! There is not only a cognitive dissonance, Brynnetania! I agree, as I agree with nearly everything you say. This discussion is just a way of organizing the contradictions we each find in our personalities.
Oh, yes, absolutely. And I hope it didn't sound like I am judging Kathleen -- I'm not the morality police. I also don't believe that any of us have the right to agree or disagree with Kathleen's choice. We're all just doing the best we can. <3
Most important thing is to be honest with yourself about who you are and what consequences are you willing to take on for your actions. Have to build your life on a foundation of self-truth. Otherwise you will collapse when life gets lifey. I had a grand passion, seven years of it. It proved unsustainable because I couldn’t live in the shadows.
They should not be judged for their feelings, but I'm going to disagree loud and clear with the idea that they should not be judged for lying to a person who trusts them.
Also, it's not either/or. Any woman can be sexy and seductive while she is also being a wife and mother. The problem is that people want to be seen exactly the same way they were seen before marriage and babies instead of understanding that experience changes us.
What is sexy at 21 is not the same as what is sexy at 60, nor should it be.
With all sorts of respect for your stance, for honesty, and for desiring equality in life and relationships that allow us to absorb as much sublimity as the one “twirl around this earth” (Kathleen Schmidt’s quote a few steps above this comment) offers, I have to (because my big dumb gob won’t stay sealed) take a slightly different position from yours. What if the male/male ID’ing partner who’s being lied to, for instance, is a wonderful human but perhaps is mildly emotionally abusive/controlling (thanks for teaching most men that one, patriarchy!), or abuses an intoxicant or two (booze or weed or both, etc), or does not equitably share the parenting/home management duties, and is thus emotionally absent or neglectful, in the ways that are fully co-signed by our society, such that the femme person cheating doesn’t feel they can complain about the neglect/abuse without being told they’re “too sensitive,” yada.
I say this without knowing the entire picture of the person whose letter is being examined, not because I hope that’s part of the picture, but because it so often is. And I say it because I don’t view marriages as equal when that’s happening, as it so often does. It is the rare male/male-leaning person who fully inhabits an equitable role in patriarchally-established marriage, and when femmes who are being cheated of a full equitable partner, as is so often the case, go outside of their marriage to balance that, there’s generally no recourse, because we only see the malady, and not its roots. We see the cheating and we say, be honest with your partner! We don’t consider her financial constraints, or the potential for harm to their kids should she do so, nor do we allow for her continued deprivation within the trap that is marriage ordained by the likes of the Kavanaughs and McConnells of the world (which it very much is their creature). Whew this is long. I am sad and I’ve lost track of my point, aside from knowing that there is rarely if ever fairness for women in traditional relationships, marriage was not established for that purpose, and as long as women continue to step into the traditional trappings of marriage, they will wind up trapped. I don’t know how to correct it, but I do know that the romantic, dreamy idyll of women telling their male spouses the truth about their affairs and having things continue safe and (financially, physically, mentally) healthy for them and their kids is about as likely as Kyrsten Sinema resolving to be a decent senator before her term ends (or she gets booted out of office prematurely, one can hope). Women get the short end nearly all of the time in these situs, and unless and until we can rebuild the structure of marriage itself from the ground up, I don’t see sufficient equity in the overarching system to allow women room to safely navigate being honest with safe-seeming men who can easily buy a gun on the way home from work and shoot them and their children after their third beer that evening. I wish we all had better options. Sigh.
But how do we change the patriarchal structure of marriage if we all just stay quiet and do our own thing and hope we don't get caught?
Telling another human being your personal truth is not a "romantic, dreamy idyll". It is hard and ugly work, and it rarely ends up with everybody living happily ever after the way they were before one person chose to cheat and lie. I never claimed that it would.
But the time to talk about that truth is *before* deciding to cheat. Maybe during if the partner suspects and asks a direct question about it. If it ends on its own, I see no reason to bring it up. What's done is done.
I'm sorry that you're sad and I understand where it comes from, but I also know far too many couples who have been in happy, healthy, married partnerships for decades to believe that true marriage does not exist.
My basic point is that it's a lot easier to blame someone else for our own dishonest choices than it is to be a grown-ass adult and own them. Far too often, when people are dissatisfied with their marriage, it's not because there is actually anything wrong, it's because they have childish, unrealistic fantasies of what marriage is.
And as long as women choose to cheat instead of addressing their fantasies, or addressing actual problems within the marriage, they are trapping* themselves.
We can do better than that, and we deserve better than that. So do our partners.
*This does not apply to women who are with dangerous men.
As the child of a cheating father I probably have a slightly different perspective than those who didn't experience anything like this. People who cheat not only do so to their spouses but the entire family. How do we, as the children witnessing the pain inflicted, stand a chance to ever have trust, a solid relationship & not submit to the sins of the cheater? My bro & I were severely traumatized and we both chose mates according to their inner qualities, not the outer layers. He's married 38 yrs now, I 35. The tentacles of memories still extend into a severe distrust of others to this day. Watching my mom become a pill popping hermit, locked in her dark room, sitting in a chair staring blankly at the walls haunts me still. Being cut off from my father, wrong as he was, still tore into me. I was able to find him after decades of being kept apart by the fact my parents hated each other, never spoke & spent all their time making the other pay, always putting me in the middle. I even lost my house because of them not being able to agree on anything. Mom passed in 2016, alone. I did track Dad down in 2018 in a run down nursing home my vengeful bro put him in and left him to rot. I saw him just once. He literally remembered everything. Everything but mom! So much time lost, apart, caught in the middle of a maelstrom of selfishness. As I wheeled him into the Fri night services he was the unofficial cantor for (he was a pro musician his whole life) I turned to look at him, knowing it would be the last time. He refound religion, was joking with the others & smiling. He never looked back at me. That vision haunts me still. He died a few weeks later & I have no idea where he is. The hate my brother had never left. He sold both their plots, had them cremated and last I heard, they're in Zip Lok bags in his underwear drawer. All because Dad just had to have sex with another woman rather than be the man he should've been. 3 years later I'm still grieving; the deaths, the lost time, not being able to visit a gravesite, the normalcy we should've had. Don't cheat. The ripples never end & the pain it causes lasts way longer than any orgasm.
Thank you for sharing, Stacy. I recognize your pain, and I hope that it becomes less with time. At least you don't have an underwear drawer full of moldy oldies...
Ha! No, it's one of my secret pleasures...new, clean, fresh undies. And no cremains. Each kind word decreases the pain so thank you. I'm okay most days. xo
Stacy: I experienced a similar childhood dynamic. May I suggest creating an altar? A little area in or near your home, with -it doesn’t have to be photos- items of remembrance or talismans that invoke the best parts of both your parents. Lighting a candle there for them on significant or painful days can have a remarkable healing effect.
You are beautiful, and thoughtful, and loved. Your awareness and articulation, I hope you know, make for pretty solid assurances that this will NOT be your life, your pain, forever.
Other, silly, “summer camp”-ish rituals can help your soul too. Writing down everything you resented or hated or suffered from, adding “I forgive you” at the end, then burning the list in a fire. Or putting the list into a balloon, having it filled with helium, and letting it drift away. It can seem pointless or trivial, but I really think, sometimes our primal hurt brains can stir with recognition of symbolic things.
I have my stairwell filled with pix starting from the 1910's. I also have every paper, document, license, ship log and even S & H books with unused stamps! They're all gently packed & wif I'm feeling nostalgic or sad I go thru them, but not as much now. The upside of the pandemic is that I've been alone so long I've been able to have the quiet & peace I needed to get thru all the feelings & emotions. I do live on the beach so last summer I dug a hole, "buried" my sorrows, covered it up and left the bad behind & now just think about the good. TBH, growing up in a musical house has helped immensely. It's my therapy, my joy, my best friend & my memories. Getting lost in a song is WAY better than getting lost in an ever revolving cycle of anger. And thank you for those kind words! I'm not good at accepting compliments so I'm working on that, too. <gotta get the lump out of my throat> xo
I understand such sorrow, but if you're willing, try and let go of the anger, though, justified. Know that the best thing your parents ever did was to create you and your brother. As all of us will turn to ashes one day, there's no use to wonder where a deceased relative is, or is not. Try putting a little more behind you, and give yourself a ton of hugs. Why? Because I think you are a beautiful, great soul and a heck of a woman. Look at yourself. You've been through hell and back. So just set course for better days.
Thanks. The problem is my religion has super strict rules about how the deceased are treated. While I'm not at all religious it disturbs me greatly as both spoke of their wishes, fears & begged me to make sure they were followed. I definitely don't have the anger the bro does, more like sadness, the feeling I could've done more. I "talk" to him often, usually as I listen to the music we played, sang & danced to together and instead of crying I smile & relive those moments now. I will take your advice and give myself that hug! You're so sweet & I really appreciate your kind words. xo
Thank you, Stacy! I really take to heart what you had written. My religion has strict rules like this as well. But, you know what? Sometimes, these things are out our control. Can you imagine all the people who had similar lives and beliefs, but due to things out of their control, they did not get the proper services they deserved as a human. Sometimes it's war, sometimes things like Katrina. Idk, to me I think God in whatever higher form or entity if one believes, looks at all of it and the persons heart and gleans the best of their efforts and stamps them cleared to enter into his/her love. Especially, if that person had no control over events that surrounded what was to be done. It is all these man made rules that sometimes make it hard for ourselves and our family members to adhere to. The best we can do is to send any loving wishes, sort of give it up to God, to do what's best and console and love ourselves just the way we are. For our hearts hurt and need comfort. We need to absolve ourselves of the extra baggage we carry throughout our lives. Know that though you could critique yourself to the nth degree, but it's unfair to do so. We need to look at ourselves and know we never have all the answers from the beginning nor at our end. Life is a learning process and as long as we have attempted to do our best, not even all the time, but to lead with our hearts, it's the best way. So thank you, again. Appreciate you very much. Though we don't talk about God much here, it is evident he/she is very alive and has his/her pulse on everything you do and wants only for you to acknowledge and know he/she loves you in your entirety. Not just pieces of you, but everything about you. And, he/she appreciates that you acknowledge his/her ways and try your best. Sent with love. You are very, very special. xo
My Dad cheated too, and eventually he married his mistress. However, Mom made nice and tried to hold the family together. This meant Mom, Dad and Tina were all together at family parties. It was hard, but after reading your story I'm gad Mom handled it the way she did.
Wow. She's one strong woman! I'm glad things worked out that way for you all. That never would've happened in our house. The "other woman" was a bigger bitch than my mom. She called once after he broke it off, I answered & she called me a pig. Unlike my mother, I fought back & she never called back.
She was in her late 30's, I was 16. She didn't get the result she hoped for. I laughed my ass off! Sprinkled in a few victory lap smears & that's probably why she didn't call back.
A 30 something woman calling a teen girl names. Real classy. NOT. Oy vey. Glad you have survived this shit show and haveca beautiful life as the best revenge💚
Ouch. My mother came from a family where her dad left to marry his Secretary. It devastated her. She always thought she must have done something to drive her father away. She was the one who held the remaining family together - her mom and sister. She got her mom through a nervous breakdown and then put her through nursing school. My mom refused to leave my abusive father because she didn’t want us to go through what she went through. She spent her life taking care of others, wishing someone would take care of her. It was all very sad. The pain and dysfunction gets handed down.
Despite my mom handling the divorce so well for us children, it tore my world apart. It kick started a depression that lasted for 35 years. I would never recommend cheating, because eventually you get caught and everyone gets hurt. I hated my Dad for many years and hated the other woman even more. In many ways I am still recovering. I no longer hate him, and she is long dead. But I think the scars will always be there.
Yes…one reason I never had kids was because I didn’t want to inadvertently pass down the dysfunctions. I wanted to be healed enough to know I could give a child the love they deserved without feeling (as my mom did) that I was sacrificing my own life in some way. I have come to believe in the inherent value and importance of my life. I do not have to reproduce or take care of someone else to give my life meaning.
However, I do find it ironic (and entirely fitting) that I have written half a dozen children’s books and have fallen in love with and am beloved by thousands of kids worldwide. I am never happier than when I get to spend time with a class or school full of kids. They free me to laugh, be silly, and ask endless questions. Thank goodness none of the ridiculous demands of adult life have ever quelled the exuberance of my inner kid. Hugs!
Awww what A nice way to see it. Thank YOU Barbara. I am just starting your book, btw. I can tell it will be a good read, but it sounds like it took a toll to write it.
This is powerful stuff Stacy. I know all too well how the mistakes of our ancestors - even those several generations down the line - can be passed down and continue to affect us even as adults. I salute you for having the courage and care to find your father. I must have stung. To me, cheating is the least of it. I don't mean that it wasn't important, but it is the tip of a much larger iceberg, and the most painful part of your story for me was that your father would rather cheat than work on the relationship. That one cut deep. Hugs.
Thank you, Jena. I try to look at my life in a 360 degree way. How would it have been if he didn't cheat? Would I have not had my Spidey Senses up to a potential cheating husband? So many continue chains of abuse, infidelity, fighting. Maybe what Dad did was the impetus for both the bro & me to be more discretionary? But, one thing to state is that mom was a narcissistic, rather judgemental & at times, mean bitch. Whether she was always that way or became so due to him is something I'll never know. He knew I forgave him, even tho it took a very long time. And, I had that last time; what every person wishes for so in that sense I feel lucky. Time heals most wounds to a degree. The hubby knew the whole story & I do believe we sibs both chose well as we're those rare people that still, 4 decades later, LIKE our spouses, as well as love. So, I got my closure, my happy ending & found all you wonderful women to draw strength & wisdom from in the process. Thank you for the kindness. xo
Wow....what a testimony. And a horrible sadness. I hope you have peace in your heart someday over the trauma of it all. Lying, Cheating and pretending it doesnt have any effects on anyone is incredibly selfish. Your families story shows how it all reverberates into literal ashes.
I had a tiring day yesterday. I slept in. Luckily after dinner and some lounging, I was pleasantly surprised that I had a new "Ask E Jean" newsletter to read and suck in. This one is "The Bomb". If my head wasn't screwed on, it would be spinning and pinging all over the walls!!! This is great. It also goes to show why Jean is a STAR, not just a celebrity, but a woman with a zap-sparkle in everything she does! Extraordinaire! Me I'm just a plain old ground hog. The advice given was nothing I could have come up with on my own.
This explains a lot why my life turned out as it has. I don't know why I just said that. But, it seems so.
I too, like Jean had once dreamt to be like "Dear Abby or Ann Landers", I preferred Ann Landers as she was slightly more hip. And, there was always Cosmo. While eye brows within my parent's home and neighborhood were raised as I was reading such, I thought they were all just crazy. But, let's get back to the actual advice... It's wise of E. Jean to go through the decades and bring round robin up for discussion. It's interesting and allows for people to be their truest selves. But, what I enjoy most hearing is that "HONESTY" is always best. But, here's the thing I just thought of: Birds of a feather flock together. Being that Mrs. In-love with Mr. WhobelongstoanotherMrs. who may have been hurt and and also the "good husband" who is pissed off and wanted to sue E. Jean. That all could have been avoided. What is showed was what selfish people do when they let their better thinking go and go for lust. It seems like love and maybe it became love, but still it hurt a whole lot of people. Common sense, maybe, not so common would have encouraged otherwise. But, there you have it, it happened. Just being human. My parents stayed together after they got divorced because of the kindness of my mother's heart. My dad who was terrible to her, beat her, had no where to go. He lost his job and lost 90% of his retirement after working for an Auto Company. Everybody lost their jobs in the industry during the Carter Era. My dad had kind of a stroke.
My brother told my dad, "Why don't you just go throw yourself off the Belle Isle bridge." He wasn't kidding. Although, Idk if he was trying to jolt him out of it, or he didn't really care if my dad were to jump off the bridge.
My mom figured he was sick and she was working at a bakery to afford health care. She allowed him to stay. He had bouts where he treated her decently, but mostly he despised her. He hooked up with a junkie who lived with the drug pushers across the street. This woman fell in love with my dad. Later, the people she lived with robbed their home of anything worthwhile. This included expensive jewelry which I bought for my mom for presents.
My dad continued meeting up with his woman anyway. I saw him give her money. My son, who was around 3 years at the time, was exploring outside and wandered into the abandoned house next door where he found funny maxum balloons. This was Detroit.
So, around 6 months before he died, he told me that my mom never loved me. Surprise, I already suspected as much, but I asked why he felt the need to tell me now. Then, I gave him examples of how I noticed and kept secret much of his escapades because I knew how much it would hurt mom if she new. He paled. He was ashamed. I added that she never, ever cheated so why did he treat her so horribly? Boy, did he feel guilty. He then said, "I always thought you never loved me." To which I responded: No, I loved you, but I didn't and don't like what you have done. I could not say anymore.
But, then I thought to myself how sad their lives with each other were so filled with violence, despair, shame, and grief. Very little happiness. So with that knowledge, I'd like to add only this: It's always best to be honest, unless there is a chance for violence ensuing. Each needs to decide for themselves their journey. Each needs to open their heart and do what's best for them, not selfishly, but with all concerned and without hate in the mix. Not easy, but for the best outcome.
I think you’re Fantastic. You’re a talented, super-engaging writer. I also love how interactive and supportive you are on all these boards. You’re funny, you validate and encourage people, and you seem to value different sides and opinions. I have to guess that in many ways, you were Your Own Parent….and you were clearly a Damn good one
Daria! I love what you said. Never, ever thought about it, but sure is nice to know that I'm not a bad influence. Thank you! You are wise and know the scope of things before most even recognize things.
Please get back on tv. Or are you already? Someone give this woman all of the money. Your advice was ultimately: respect yourself. How many ejector seat affairs have saved a woman's whole damn life? Countless. Saved mind. Life is fleeting, love is fleeting, E Jean we need a show.
In all seriousness, and I am not kidding. You would hold the # 1 spot on afternoon and late night TV. Maurry, forgot the others, they would be left in the dust.
Not to be a killjoy, but "love" doesn't justify an utter lack of integrity. If you cheat on your spouse, then it's not up to you to decide whether or not your marriage needs to be "opened up" or they need to just kick your ass to the curb. That is up to them, and if they choose to keep you and forgive you, don't waste everybody's precious time acting like what you did wasn't a dishonest betrayal because "true love" somehow provides adequate explanation. Dig deep, find some humility, and then, whether or not they choose to keep you, go to freaking therapy. Jayzus.
"Passion stops being a pleasure when it stops being a secret." I consider that a probable truth. And I love the "reading." It feels like we're in the dining room together having a conversation over wine. Thank you, Auntie E.
And Auntie E. Jean’s read-aloud version was even better! More, please. I love to read aloud (dramatically, of course) and I truly enjoy listening to people read their own writing. The podcast version that arrived this morning was such a treat. Thank you!
Good lord. This is no longer a newsletter. It's morphed into a podcast, TV show. advice column, political commentary, and state of the world update all rolled into one. BRAVO!
Personally, I loved hearing your voice as there's a lot that cannot be conveyed by words alone. But the TV clip? Do you suppose Bill Boggs had (or has) any idea what was really going on? Did he realize how your questions set him up, or how his remarks and your refusal to take the bait he kept lobbing at you made him look? My favorite part was when you got him to do the kick. Priceless. And I agree with everyone else. We need to get you your very own show.
Back in a bit with my thoughts on In Love and In Trouble's quandary.
I'm laughing so hard I'm getting Charlie horses in my right butt cheek! I'm not kidding!
Oh man oh man. I adore you E. Jean! So priceless.
I've got no advice or opinion on the cheater lady. Not even the biggest cheaters list, EXCEPT for Zuckerberg. He's such an ass he just HAS to be besties with Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene! He's someone who'd for right in to that level of crazy!
Facebook down all those hours. I saw on the news he lost something like $6 billion- yes that's b-b-b-billion! I was like, oh big damn deal. $6B whoopdedoo! That's the loose change he takes outta his pocket and tosses in the coin bowl before bed, yeah? Considering he's still worth over $121 Billion I don't care about his little loss. However, being the soft hearted sap that I am, I'll try to tune up my micro violin and play him a sad song.
He is worse than a cheater in marriage—he cheats the world and throws his e-weight around with the lies he permits on the site. I would shake the hand of whoever shut the site down. Hell, I’d bake them a cake. I’d give them a foot massage. Maybe if he loses enough money he’ll have to sell one of his ostentatious Tahoe mansions and hopefully the lake will recover. His dominance over the internet is bigger than cheating on his wife. Just ask Bill Gated. (I hope Melinda took a huge chunk). Like you, my tiny violin is waiting.
The question is WHY snoopbook went down. Revenge by Anonymous-style hackers for fomenting the crazy hateful acts by the zombie army, purposely taken offline to erase evidence and footprints, or ..... ??
First let me say that this was the BEST post since you started on Substack IMO,
and certainly the most entertaining!! The Bill Boggs clip was great and you looked wonderful!
Answering today’s question, it is not fair to your husband or to your lover’s wife to continue this; innocent people getting hurt is never a good thing. That being said, I understand human weakness and desire and excitement, but E Jean’s final piece of advice (to end it) was right.
I just want to add that I enjoyed the glimpse of the show more than I usually like Johnny Carson. You were and are amazing! Get back on some shows and talk about the "Conflab" and how much fun it all is!
Every woman deserves a grand passion. It is the juice of life. Having written that, in the end, honesty, integrity, and honor are everything. ps You have the snap crackle pop, E Jean.
I would have given the same advice in the '90s that I would give now.
Grow up.
Lying to someone who loves you is a trash move. This woman agreed to a certain set of rules in her relationship with her husband. She doesn't get to change them without his agreement.
Women are all about consent until they decide to cheat. Where is her husband's consent to having another man in his marriage?
Choose one or the other, or be an adult and tell both men your truth.
The fine mind AND cut-to-chase style of Brynnetania has come up with a phrase that can label the entirety 2021:
"TRASH MOVE."
Agree. I have several people I plan to use it on.
Or how about Mary Trump and E. Jean Carroll have a late-night TV Hour. I'm up, I'll watch. I love you both.
This would help the Democratic Party. Go for it
I just watched that Bill Boggs show and for the life of me I can’t understand why you are not a movie star (…who writes an advice column). In fact I’m so distracted by your charisma I can’t even remember what the poor reader was asking about. I think you should be video-ing your Substacks, not just reading and writing them.
VAL! Come on over woman and we will try out that video idea by videoing one of your How Not To F*ck Up Your Face's https://valeriemonroe.substack.com/ questions while we are hiking the Appalachian trail!
Wants to come along!
Do!!!
Email me directions and the name of Guff's favorite cookies ;-)
...in our matching hats. I just need to down a few more of those calcium horse pills first. xo
Hats?! Ther are hats involved?
Yeah, E. Jean, video-ing, because you don't have enough to do. /s
The woman has more electric energy than a three-year-old. Take it from me: I've seen it.
Right?! Although I will say that E. Jean speaks and behaves like a cheerleader who's high on life ;-)
It's true. E. Jean sparkles, but so do all of you.
Takes one sparkler to know one? That sounds weird, but you know what I mean. You sparkle with the best of em, Lucy.
Thank you so much, Jena!
I’d love an update on her life. I went through something similar but it lasted for a VERY long time. I’m not ashamed of it and I wouldn’t change a thing. My view is that if you are lucky enough to have that intense passion, hold onto it quietly. This takes a lot of mental gymnastics and understanding what you’ve signed up for (as in, you’re not marrying the guy). It takes a certain amount of maturity and mutual agreement to carry on with a lover, but we only get one twirl around this earth so make it an excellent one.
I wouldn’t have told her to end it, but I would’ve definitely pointed out that she needs to get a grip on her life and be realistic about what’s possible. Affairs often feel like a bubble. They’re above the static of every day life. She’d need to compartmentalize her relationship with the other instead of creating drama about it. I would’ve also said that the kids need to come first.
What I do understand is that some women may feel like they need to be seen as sexy and seductive rather than just a wife and mother. And sometimes that may lead a woman outside of her marriage. They shouldn’t be judged for this.
Kathleen, batten down your hat and fasten your chin strap, woman! You are about to encounter contradictions:
I maintain that when you are an honest person, morally strong, and follow your own compass, that when you fall in love and are thrilled to the core, it is your duty NOT to follow convention.
Many in the Conflab will not agree.
Your happiness proves that it worked for you. Thank you for your story.
I am the absolute last person to give a flying fig about "convention" and do not believe that monogamy is only way to be in love, but I do see some cognitive dissonance in believing that one is honest and morally strong while lying to another human being on the daily. YMMV, of course.
Yes! There is not only a cognitive dissonance, Brynnetania! I agree, as I agree with nearly everything you say. This discussion is just a way of organizing the contradictions we each find in our personalities.
Oh, yes, absolutely. And I hope it didn't sound like I am judging Kathleen -- I'm not the morality police. I also don't believe that any of us have the right to agree or disagree with Kathleen's choice. We're all just doing the best we can. <3
Brynnetania, you deserve your own flag. What a perfect and generous thing to say (and to have thought in order to say it). 💜👑
Excellent, excellent point!
Most important thing is to be honest with yourself about who you are and what consequences are you willing to take on for your actions. Have to build your life on a foundation of self-truth. Otherwise you will collapse when life gets lifey. I had a grand passion, seven years of it. It proved unsustainable because I couldn’t live in the shadows.
This again and again this. Your relationship with yourself is the reason you exist.
Yup. You have your own agency.
Can’t let the patriarchy and it’s handmaidens convince you otherwise. Claim your power and never let it go.
*its
Omg A Longer Name. “When life gets lifey.” If that doesn’t pack a crystalline punch. Whew.
That's a very good point, too.
They should not be judged for their feelings, but I'm going to disagree loud and clear with the idea that they should not be judged for lying to a person who trusts them.
Also, it's not either/or. Any woman can be sexy and seductive while she is also being a wife and mother. The problem is that people want to be seen exactly the same way they were seen before marriage and babies instead of understanding that experience changes us.
What is sexy at 21 is not the same as what is sexy at 60, nor should it be.
With all sorts of respect for your stance, for honesty, and for desiring equality in life and relationships that allow us to absorb as much sublimity as the one “twirl around this earth” (Kathleen Schmidt’s quote a few steps above this comment) offers, I have to (because my big dumb gob won’t stay sealed) take a slightly different position from yours. What if the male/male ID’ing partner who’s being lied to, for instance, is a wonderful human but perhaps is mildly emotionally abusive/controlling (thanks for teaching most men that one, patriarchy!), or abuses an intoxicant or two (booze or weed or both, etc), or does not equitably share the parenting/home management duties, and is thus emotionally absent or neglectful, in the ways that are fully co-signed by our society, such that the femme person cheating doesn’t feel they can complain about the neglect/abuse without being told they’re “too sensitive,” yada.
I say this without knowing the entire picture of the person whose letter is being examined, not because I hope that’s part of the picture, but because it so often is. And I say it because I don’t view marriages as equal when that’s happening, as it so often does. It is the rare male/male-leaning person who fully inhabits an equitable role in patriarchally-established marriage, and when femmes who are being cheated of a full equitable partner, as is so often the case, go outside of their marriage to balance that, there’s generally no recourse, because we only see the malady, and not its roots. We see the cheating and we say, be honest with your partner! We don’t consider her financial constraints, or the potential for harm to their kids should she do so, nor do we allow for her continued deprivation within the trap that is marriage ordained by the likes of the Kavanaughs and McConnells of the world (which it very much is their creature). Whew this is long. I am sad and I’ve lost track of my point, aside from knowing that there is rarely if ever fairness for women in traditional relationships, marriage was not established for that purpose, and as long as women continue to step into the traditional trappings of marriage, they will wind up trapped. I don’t know how to correct it, but I do know that the romantic, dreamy idyll of women telling their male spouses the truth about their affairs and having things continue safe and (financially, physically, mentally) healthy for them and their kids is about as likely as Kyrsten Sinema resolving to be a decent senator before her term ends (or she gets booted out of office prematurely, one can hope). Women get the short end nearly all of the time in these situs, and unless and until we can rebuild the structure of marriage itself from the ground up, I don’t see sufficient equity in the overarching system to allow women room to safely navigate being honest with safe-seeming men who can easily buy a gun on the way home from work and shoot them and their children after their third beer that evening. I wish we all had better options. Sigh.
(The above novella is a response to Brynnetania’s re being honest about cheating, fwiw.)
But how do we change the patriarchal structure of marriage if we all just stay quiet and do our own thing and hope we don't get caught?
Telling another human being your personal truth is not a "romantic, dreamy idyll". It is hard and ugly work, and it rarely ends up with everybody living happily ever after the way they were before one person chose to cheat and lie. I never claimed that it would.
But the time to talk about that truth is *before* deciding to cheat. Maybe during if the partner suspects and asks a direct question about it. If it ends on its own, I see no reason to bring it up. What's done is done.
I'm sorry that you're sad and I understand where it comes from, but I also know far too many couples who have been in happy, healthy, married partnerships for decades to believe that true marriage does not exist.
My basic point is that it's a lot easier to blame someone else for our own dishonest choices than it is to be a grown-ass adult and own them. Far too often, when people are dissatisfied with their marriage, it's not because there is actually anything wrong, it's because they have childish, unrealistic fantasies of what marriage is.
And as long as women choose to cheat instead of addressing their fantasies, or addressing actual problems within the marriage, they are trapping* themselves.
We can do better than that, and we deserve better than that. So do our partners.
*This does not apply to women who are with dangerous men.
As the child of a cheating father I probably have a slightly different perspective than those who didn't experience anything like this. People who cheat not only do so to their spouses but the entire family. How do we, as the children witnessing the pain inflicted, stand a chance to ever have trust, a solid relationship & not submit to the sins of the cheater? My bro & I were severely traumatized and we both chose mates according to their inner qualities, not the outer layers. He's married 38 yrs now, I 35. The tentacles of memories still extend into a severe distrust of others to this day. Watching my mom become a pill popping hermit, locked in her dark room, sitting in a chair staring blankly at the walls haunts me still. Being cut off from my father, wrong as he was, still tore into me. I was able to find him after decades of being kept apart by the fact my parents hated each other, never spoke & spent all their time making the other pay, always putting me in the middle. I even lost my house because of them not being able to agree on anything. Mom passed in 2016, alone. I did track Dad down in 2018 in a run down nursing home my vengeful bro put him in and left him to rot. I saw him just once. He literally remembered everything. Everything but mom! So much time lost, apart, caught in the middle of a maelstrom of selfishness. As I wheeled him into the Fri night services he was the unofficial cantor for (he was a pro musician his whole life) I turned to look at him, knowing it would be the last time. He refound religion, was joking with the others & smiling. He never looked back at me. That vision haunts me still. He died a few weeks later & I have no idea where he is. The hate my brother had never left. He sold both their plots, had them cremated and last I heard, they're in Zip Lok bags in his underwear drawer. All because Dad just had to have sex with another woman rather than be the man he should've been. 3 years later I'm still grieving; the deaths, the lost time, not being able to visit a gravesite, the normalcy we should've had. Don't cheat. The ripples never end & the pain it causes lasts way longer than any orgasm.
Stacy, thank you!
Thank you for sharing, Stacy. I recognize your pain, and I hope that it becomes less with time. At least you don't have an underwear drawer full of moldy oldies...
Ha! No, it's one of my secret pleasures...new, clean, fresh undies. And no cremains. Each kind word decreases the pain so thank you. I'm okay most days. xo
Stacy: I experienced a similar childhood dynamic. May I suggest creating an altar? A little area in or near your home, with -it doesn’t have to be photos- items of remembrance or talismans that invoke the best parts of both your parents. Lighting a candle there for them on significant or painful days can have a remarkable healing effect.
You are beautiful, and thoughtful, and loved. Your awareness and articulation, I hope you know, make for pretty solid assurances that this will NOT be your life, your pain, forever.
Other, silly, “summer camp”-ish rituals can help your soul too. Writing down everything you resented or hated or suffered from, adding “I forgive you” at the end, then burning the list in a fire. Or putting the list into a balloon, having it filled with helium, and letting it drift away. It can seem pointless or trivial, but I really think, sometimes our primal hurt brains can stir with recognition of symbolic things.
I have my stairwell filled with pix starting from the 1910's. I also have every paper, document, license, ship log and even S & H books with unused stamps! They're all gently packed & wif I'm feeling nostalgic or sad I go thru them, but not as much now. The upside of the pandemic is that I've been alone so long I've been able to have the quiet & peace I needed to get thru all the feelings & emotions. I do live on the beach so last summer I dug a hole, "buried" my sorrows, covered it up and left the bad behind & now just think about the good. TBH, growing up in a musical house has helped immensely. It's my therapy, my joy, my best friend & my memories. Getting lost in a song is WAY better than getting lost in an ever revolving cycle of anger. And thank you for those kind words! I'm not good at accepting compliments so I'm working on that, too. <gotta get the lump out of my throat> xo
I understand such sorrow, but if you're willing, try and let go of the anger, though, justified. Know that the best thing your parents ever did was to create you and your brother. As all of us will turn to ashes one day, there's no use to wonder where a deceased relative is, or is not. Try putting a little more behind you, and give yourself a ton of hugs. Why? Because I think you are a beautiful, great soul and a heck of a woman. Look at yourself. You've been through hell and back. So just set course for better days.
Thanks. The problem is my religion has super strict rules about how the deceased are treated. While I'm not at all religious it disturbs me greatly as both spoke of their wishes, fears & begged me to make sure they were followed. I definitely don't have the anger the bro does, more like sadness, the feeling I could've done more. I "talk" to him often, usually as I listen to the music we played, sang & danced to together and instead of crying I smile & relive those moments now. I will take your advice and give myself that hug! You're so sweet & I really appreciate your kind words. xo
Thank you, Stacy! I really take to heart what you had written. My religion has strict rules like this as well. But, you know what? Sometimes, these things are out our control. Can you imagine all the people who had similar lives and beliefs, but due to things out of their control, they did not get the proper services they deserved as a human. Sometimes it's war, sometimes things like Katrina. Idk, to me I think God in whatever higher form or entity if one believes, looks at all of it and the persons heart and gleans the best of their efforts and stamps them cleared to enter into his/her love. Especially, if that person had no control over events that surrounded what was to be done. It is all these man made rules that sometimes make it hard for ourselves and our family members to adhere to. The best we can do is to send any loving wishes, sort of give it up to God, to do what's best and console and love ourselves just the way we are. For our hearts hurt and need comfort. We need to absolve ourselves of the extra baggage we carry throughout our lives. Know that though you could critique yourself to the nth degree, but it's unfair to do so. We need to look at ourselves and know we never have all the answers from the beginning nor at our end. Life is a learning process and as long as we have attempted to do our best, not even all the time, but to lead with our hearts, it's the best way. So thank you, again. Appreciate you very much. Though we don't talk about God much here, it is evident he/she is very alive and has his/her pulse on everything you do and wants only for you to acknowledge and know he/she loves you in your entirety. Not just pieces of you, but everything about you. And, he/she appreciates that you acknowledge his/her ways and try your best. Sent with love. You are very, very special. xo
My Dad cheated too, and eventually he married his mistress. However, Mom made nice and tried to hold the family together. This meant Mom, Dad and Tina were all together at family parties. It was hard, but after reading your story I'm gad Mom handled it the way she did.
Wow. She's one strong woman! I'm glad things worked out that way for you all. That never would've happened in our house. The "other woman" was a bigger bitch than my mom. She called once after he broke it off, I answered & she called me a pig. Unlike my mother, I fought back & she never called back.
Um...wtf! She called you....a pig. How awful.
She was in her late 30's, I was 16. She didn't get the result she hoped for. I laughed my ass off! Sprinkled in a few victory lap smears & that's probably why she didn't call back.
A 30 something woman calling a teen girl names. Real classy. NOT. Oy vey. Glad you have survived this shit show and haveca beautiful life as the best revenge💚
Ouch. My mother came from a family where her dad left to marry his Secretary. It devastated her. She always thought she must have done something to drive her father away. She was the one who held the remaining family together - her mom and sister. She got her mom through a nervous breakdown and then put her through nursing school. My mom refused to leave my abusive father because she didn’t want us to go through what she went through. She spent her life taking care of others, wishing someone would take care of her. It was all very sad. The pain and dysfunction gets handed down.
Despite my mom handling the divorce so well for us children, it tore my world apart. It kick started a depression that lasted for 35 years. I would never recommend cheating, because eventually you get caught and everyone gets hurt. I hated my Dad for many years and hated the other woman even more. In many ways I am still recovering. I no longer hate him, and she is long dead. But I think the scars will always be there.
Yes…one reason I never had kids was because I didn’t want to inadvertently pass down the dysfunctions. I wanted to be healed enough to know I could give a child the love they deserved without feeling (as my mom did) that I was sacrificing my own life in some way. I have come to believe in the inherent value and importance of my life. I do not have to reproduce or take care of someone else to give my life meaning.
However, I do find it ironic (and entirely fitting) that I have written half a dozen children’s books and have fallen in love with and am beloved by thousands of kids worldwide. I am never happier than when I get to spend time with a class or school full of kids. They free me to laugh, be silly, and ask endless questions. Thank goodness none of the ridiculous demands of adult life have ever quelled the exuberance of my inner kid. Hugs!
What a great legacy! Congrats on your success! ❤️
Awww what A nice way to see it. Thank YOU Barbara. I am just starting your book, btw. I can tell it will be a good read, but it sounds like it took a toll to write it.
Oh....💔
Oh so sad.
This is powerful stuff Stacy. I know all too well how the mistakes of our ancestors - even those several generations down the line - can be passed down and continue to affect us even as adults. I salute you for having the courage and care to find your father. I must have stung. To me, cheating is the least of it. I don't mean that it wasn't important, but it is the tip of a much larger iceberg, and the most painful part of your story for me was that your father would rather cheat than work on the relationship. That one cut deep. Hugs.
Thank you, Jena. I try to look at my life in a 360 degree way. How would it have been if he didn't cheat? Would I have not had my Spidey Senses up to a potential cheating husband? So many continue chains of abuse, infidelity, fighting. Maybe what Dad did was the impetus for both the bro & me to be more discretionary? But, one thing to state is that mom was a narcissistic, rather judgemental & at times, mean bitch. Whether she was always that way or became so due to him is something I'll never know. He knew I forgave him, even tho it took a very long time. And, I had that last time; what every person wishes for so in that sense I feel lucky. Time heals most wounds to a degree. The hubby knew the whole story & I do believe we sibs both chose well as we're those rare people that still, 4 decades later, LIKE our spouses, as well as love. So, I got my closure, my happy ending & found all you wonderful women to draw strength & wisdom from in the process. Thank you for the kindness. xo
Wow....what a testimony. And a horrible sadness. I hope you have peace in your heart someday over the trauma of it all. Lying, Cheating and pretending it doesnt have any effects on anyone is incredibly selfish. Your families story shows how it all reverberates into literal ashes.
I had a tiring day yesterday. I slept in. Luckily after dinner and some lounging, I was pleasantly surprised that I had a new "Ask E Jean" newsletter to read and suck in. This one is "The Bomb". If my head wasn't screwed on, it would be spinning and pinging all over the walls!!! This is great. It also goes to show why Jean is a STAR, not just a celebrity, but a woman with a zap-sparkle in everything she does! Extraordinaire! Me I'm just a plain old ground hog. The advice given was nothing I could have come up with on my own.
This explains a lot why my life turned out as it has. I don't know why I just said that. But, it seems so.
I too, like Jean had once dreamt to be like "Dear Abby or Ann Landers", I preferred Ann Landers as she was slightly more hip. And, there was always Cosmo. While eye brows within my parent's home and neighborhood were raised as I was reading such, I thought they were all just crazy. But, let's get back to the actual advice... It's wise of E. Jean to go through the decades and bring round robin up for discussion. It's interesting and allows for people to be their truest selves. But, what I enjoy most hearing is that "HONESTY" is always best. But, here's the thing I just thought of: Birds of a feather flock together. Being that Mrs. In-love with Mr. WhobelongstoanotherMrs. who may have been hurt and and also the "good husband" who is pissed off and wanted to sue E. Jean. That all could have been avoided. What is showed was what selfish people do when they let their better thinking go and go for lust. It seems like love and maybe it became love, but still it hurt a whole lot of people. Common sense, maybe, not so common would have encouraged otherwise. But, there you have it, it happened. Just being human. My parents stayed together after they got divorced because of the kindness of my mother's heart. My dad who was terrible to her, beat her, had no where to go. He lost his job and lost 90% of his retirement after working for an Auto Company. Everybody lost their jobs in the industry during the Carter Era. My dad had kind of a stroke.
My brother told my dad, "Why don't you just go throw yourself off the Belle Isle bridge." He wasn't kidding. Although, Idk if he was trying to jolt him out of it, or he didn't really care if my dad were to jump off the bridge.
My mom figured he was sick and she was working at a bakery to afford health care. She allowed him to stay. He had bouts where he treated her decently, but mostly he despised her. He hooked up with a junkie who lived with the drug pushers across the street. This woman fell in love with my dad. Later, the people she lived with robbed their home of anything worthwhile. This included expensive jewelry which I bought for my mom for presents.
My dad continued meeting up with his woman anyway. I saw him give her money. My son, who was around 3 years at the time, was exploring outside and wandered into the abandoned house next door where he found funny maxum balloons. This was Detroit.
So, around 6 months before he died, he told me that my mom never loved me. Surprise, I already suspected as much, but I asked why he felt the need to tell me now. Then, I gave him examples of how I noticed and kept secret much of his escapades because I knew how much it would hurt mom if she new. He paled. He was ashamed. I added that she never, ever cheated so why did he treat her so horribly? Boy, did he feel guilty. He then said, "I always thought you never loved me." To which I responded: No, I loved you, but I didn't and don't like what you have done. I could not say anymore.
But, then I thought to myself how sad their lives with each other were so filled with violence, despair, shame, and grief. Very little happiness. So with that knowledge, I'd like to add only this: It's always best to be honest, unless there is a chance for violence ensuing. Each needs to decide for themselves their journey. Each needs to open their heart and do what's best for them, not selfishly, but with all concerned and without hate in the mix. Not easy, but for the best outcome.
Lucy Sosha! Thank you!
And just so you know, your mother DID love you. And I love you. And your story raises us all up another notch in wisdom.
What E. Jean said. Hugs Lucy (((Lucy))).
Thank you, E. Jean. I love you, too.
Lucy, what a heartbreaking story…I am so glad you told your father that. You are strong, perhaps in spite of your parents’ issues
Thank you, promqueen! I really appreciate your comment.
You are a brave woman.
You’re no groundhog. I would call you…how about “domestic Phoenix”. ❤️
Hah! Love it Daria!
lol I'll take it.
I think you’re Fantastic. You’re a talented, super-engaging writer. I also love how interactive and supportive you are on all these boards. You’re funny, you validate and encourage people, and you seem to value different sides and opinions. I have to guess that in many ways, you were Your Own Parent….and you were clearly a Damn good one
Daria! I love what you said. Never, ever thought about it, but sure is nice to know that I'm not a bad influence. Thank you! You are wise and know the scope of things before most even recognize things.
Please get back on tv. Or are you already? Someone give this woman all of the money. Your advice was ultimately: respect yourself. How many ejector seat affairs have saved a woman's whole damn life? Countless. Saved mind. Life is fleeting, love is fleeting, E Jean we need a show.
Aw, Ange! That means alot coming from you!! Thank you!
By the way, could I be your side kick? Like Ed McMahon. lol It would be a hoot.
In all seriousness, and I am not kidding. You would hold the # 1 spot on afternoon and late night TV. Maurry, forgot the others, they would be left in the dust.
Ange, you and everyone else are correct. We need (and deserve) E. Jean TV, stat.
Not to be a killjoy, but "love" doesn't justify an utter lack of integrity. If you cheat on your spouse, then it's not up to you to decide whether or not your marriage needs to be "opened up" or they need to just kick your ass to the curb. That is up to them, and if they choose to keep you and forgive you, don't waste everybody's precious time acting like what you did wasn't a dishonest betrayal because "true love" somehow provides adequate explanation. Dig deep, find some humility, and then, whether or not they choose to keep you, go to freaking therapy. Jayzus.
Asha! Thank you! Look forward to seeing you at the next Cocktail Hour!
I agree.
"Passion stops being a pleasure when it stops being a secret." I consider that a probable truth. And I love the "reading." It feels like we're in the dining room together having a conversation over wine. Thank you, Auntie E.
We ARE in the dining room having a conversation over wine, Cande, aren't we?
This latest newsletter is one of the greatest flipping pieces of writing I’ve ever enjoyed!!!
Zounds, Ms. Tracy! Thank you!
And Auntie E. Jean’s read-aloud version was even better! More, please. I love to read aloud (dramatically, of course) and I truly enjoy listening to people read their own writing. The podcast version that arrived this morning was such a treat. Thank you!
❤️
Good lord. This is no longer a newsletter. It's morphed into a podcast, TV show. advice column, political commentary, and state of the world update all rolled into one. BRAVO!
Personally, I loved hearing your voice as there's a lot that cannot be conveyed by words alone. But the TV clip? Do you suppose Bill Boggs had (or has) any idea what was really going on? Did he realize how your questions set him up, or how his remarks and your refusal to take the bait he kept lobbing at you made him look? My favorite part was when you got him to do the kick. Priceless. And I agree with everyone else. We need to get you your very own show.
Back in a bit with my thoughts on In Love and In Trouble's quandary.
Jena!
You are the best!!
I'm laughing so hard I'm getting Charlie horses in my right butt cheek! I'm not kidding!
Oh man oh man. I adore you E. Jean! So priceless.
I've got no advice or opinion on the cheater lady. Not even the biggest cheaters list, EXCEPT for Zuckerberg. He's such an ass he just HAS to be besties with Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene! He's someone who'd for right in to that level of crazy!
Facebook down all those hours. I saw on the news he lost something like $6 billion- yes that's b-b-b-billion! I was like, oh big damn deal. $6B whoopdedoo! That's the loose change he takes outta his pocket and tosses in the coin bowl before bed, yeah? Considering he's still worth over $121 Billion I don't care about his little loss. However, being the soft hearted sap that I am, I'll try to tune up my micro violin and play him a sad song.
Pfffft.
Nothing would make me happier, Deana, than to see Facebook go down PERMMMMMMMANENTALLY!
P.S. Thank you for the nice things you said!
Right there with you.
He is worse than a cheater in marriage—he cheats the world and throws his e-weight around with the lies he permits on the site. I would shake the hand of whoever shut the site down. Hell, I’d bake them a cake. I’d give them a foot massage. Maybe if he loses enough money he’ll have to sell one of his ostentatious Tahoe mansions and hopefully the lake will recover. His dominance over the internet is bigger than cheating on his wife. Just ask Bill Gated. (I hope Melinda took a huge chunk). Like you, my tiny violin is waiting.
I think of the worst, there are many standing in the same suit. To me, Trump is the worst.
Agreed…he has no humility whatsoever
“Gated?” GATES! *damnyouautocorrect*
I like Gated.
The question is WHY snoopbook went down. Revenge by Anonymous-style hackers for fomenting the crazy hateful acts by the zombie army, purposely taken offline to erase evidence and footprints, or ..... ??
I thought (and hoped) perhaps that YOU took Facebook down, Elena Roooooose!
If only I had the talent .....
First let me say that this was the BEST post since you started on Substack IMO,
and certainly the most entertaining!! The Bill Boggs clip was great and you looked wonderful!
Answering today’s question, it is not fair to your husband or to your lover’s wife to continue this; innocent people getting hurt is never a good thing. That being said, I understand human weakness and desire and excitement, but E Jean’s final piece of advice (to end it) was right.
Promqueen! Thank you! I will use your rousing review as my guide! I just gotta attempt now to live up to it!
I don’t think that will be hard
I just want to add that I enjoyed the glimpse of the show more than I usually like Johnny Carson. You were and are amazing! Get back on some shows and talk about the "Conflab" and how much fun it all is!
Every woman deserves a grand passion. It is the juice of life. Having written that, in the end, honesty, integrity, and honor are everything. ps You have the snap crackle pop, E Jean.
Longer! Thank you! My "snap" got a bit soggy after my Booster. But I am feeling much better!
Glad to hear you’re feeling better!
Oh you got one! I can’t yet as I had Moderna. I do recall that the second shot took me out for three days. Did the booster do the same?
I got the Moderna. I am not messing around! You DON'T have to wait to get the booster, Jena!
Really? I was told I had to wait by a friend who is a nurse. I’ll check into it today. Thank you.
Thanks I didn't know that.
Nice historical perspective! But is it really about her lover and her husband? People will go mad with two toddlers in the house.
YOU have had two toddlers, and you and Rob have one of the GREAT and BRILLIANT lovey-dovey all time partnerships, my Marilyn!